how can they not do the Manderly sub plot

[ctid1977]

I honestly don't remember the random northern men filler. I did read the book years ago though :dunno:

I can't tell if you're trolling or not. Re-read them. Theon, Asha, Davos, Jon and Melisandre. Trust me, they're the best thing about ADWD.

[ctid1977]

And the LSH reveal isn't so much a fuck yeah moment to me. It's more disturbing, whereas the Manderly one is more of a ray of hope than that. Until the Frey pies, which is disturbing again.

[Dany4eva]

I can't tell if you're trolling or not. Re-read them. Theon, Asha, Davos, Jon and Melisandre. Trust me, they're the best thing about ADWD.

I have not motivation for a re-read right now. Maybe one day in the future.

[Dany4eva]

And the LSH reveal isn't so much a fuck yeah moment to me. It's more disturbing, whereas the Manderly one is more of a ray of hope than that. Until the Frey pies, which is disturbing again.

I didn't think it disturbing. I was just in complete awe and excitement (LSH)

[Caerl Targaryen]

I doubt they'd work tirelessly year-round to give us an adaptation of books they didn't love simply to piss you off.

That isn't what I said. I don't think they're working tirelessly year-round to personally piss me off. I think the showrunners only care about the big check that they're getting. It's become increasingly obvious that they don't care about quality writing. They care about boobs. And boobs. Oh, and boobs. If in doubt, throw in some boobs or maybe a bit of random raping. Or maybe throw in a "consensual" rape scene. They only seem to care about their own invented nonsense that adds nothing of value to the story.

If they weren't making up their own filler I might actually believe that they simply don't have the time. Other than Dany's laughably bad story in Qarth in season 2, I actually believed that they knew what they were doing. But they're adding brand new subplots that literally go nowhere at all to a part of the story that's already loaded with subplots. The book material feels rushed and mechanical while their own material gets tons of screen time. It isn't exactly a stretch to assume that their priorities aren't what they used to be. They're catering to the lowest common denominator and the intelligence of the show has dropped significantly in the process.

There's a serious problem when I can think of more efficient and intelligent ways to adapt the material than the showrunners. I'm not even a writer.

It's amazing how many people seem to think that though. Surely there's got to be easier ways to get your kicks!

It's also amazing how many people don't bother to read what's actually written in posts before responding.

[Reznak mo Reznak]

There's a serious problem when I can think of more efficient and intelligent ways to adapt the material than the showrunners. I'm not even a writer.

Maybe you should try and adapt your own massive book series to TV before you get so high and mighty.

[Dragon in the North]

That isn't what I said.

"Then season 4 came along and it felt like they were intentionally giving book fans the middle finger just because they could." Those were your exact words, though I understand I may have taken them out of context.

[ADanceWithCats]

I honestly don't understand the attachment some people have to the Manderly subplot. It has two nice scenes - the one where Manderly gives his speech, and the pies. But beyond that, the plot is just Davos sitting in a cell - a rehash of Season 3 - and Manderly is not so much a character as a plot device to send Davos to find Rickon. He is not a major player in the game for North, and he'll not be the one to deal with the Boltons. That's Stannis, Theon and possibly Jon.

[ctid1977]

I honestly don't understand the attachment some people have to the Manderly subplot. It has two nice scenes - the one where Manderly gives his speech, and the pies. But beyond that, the plot is just Davos sitting in a cell - a rehash of Season 3 - and Manderly is not so much a character as a plot device to send Davos to find Rickon. He is not a major player in the game for North, and he'll not be the one to deal with the Boltons. That's Stannis, Theon and possibly Jon.

It's the point in the books where you finally regain hope for the Starks. It was far and away the biggest cheer moment for me on first read. It's up there with the king in the north stuff from book one.

[ADanceWithCats]

It's the point in the books where you finally regain hope for the Starks. It was far and away the biggest cheer moment for me on first read. It's up there with the king in the north stuff from book one.

But by this time in the narrative, Arya, Bran and Sansa are all in relatively safe places and are all already on their life paths. Why would you need to regain hope for them when they are doing, well, good? For all their nostalgia, I don't think that if you gave any of these three the choice of continuing where they are or returning to Winterfell, they would choose returning to Winterfell.

(Hence all the theories that it will be Rickon who will take over the rule in the end - by default and because he's too young to forge his own separate path.)

[ctid1977]

But by this time in the narrative, Arya, Bran and Sansa are all in relatively safe places and are all already on their life paths. Why would you need to regain hope for them when they are doing, well, good? For all their nostalgia, I don't think that if you gave any of these three the choice of continuing where they are or returning to Winterfell, they would choose returning to Winterfell.

(Hence all the theories that it will be Rickon who will take over the rule in the end - by default and because he's too young to forge his own separate path.)

Well you said you didn't understand the attachment people have with Manderly so I explained my personal attachment and what reading that chapter evoked in me.

It was the first sign for me that gave me hope that the Starks would eventually be back in Winterfel and it was so well done as you start off hating the fat man and end up cheering like a loonie.

[zaphodbrx]

I honestly don't understand the attachment some people have to the Manderly subplot. It has two nice scenes - the one where Manderly gives his speech, and the pies. But beyond that, the plot is just Davos sitting in a cell - a rehash of Season 3 - and Manderly is not so much a character as a plot device to send Davos to find Rickon. He is not a major player in the game for North, and he'll not be the one to deal with the Boltons. That's Stannis, Theon and possibly Jon.

How about: He is an awesome character and kicks ass?

No, we need a 'plot reason'. Remind me again what plot reason is served by Pod and the whores? Or beetles?

[Cas Stark]

I honestly don't understand the attachment some people have to the Manderly subplot. It has two nice scenes - the one where Manderly gives his speech, and the pies. But beyond that, the plot is just Davos sitting in a cell - a rehash of Season 3 - and Manderly is not so much a character as a plot device to send Davos to find Rickon. He is not a major player in the game for North, and he'll not be the one to deal with the Boltons. That's Stannis, Theon and possibly Jon.

Indeed, the fact that it is so full of impact yet so short and memorable is EXACTLY why it would be easy to put it in the show.

A lot of people have the crazy idea that the Starks should get Winterfell back, Manderly has that same idea hence his popularity with book readers.

And he's a vivid character, however short his arc is.

[Gendry_Goldeneyes]

didn't they cast manderly's son in season 3 and use him as a background character with 0 lines and 0 introduction with a tiny presence?

i'd love to know why they do these things sometimes, along with all the scenes they cut down and cut out of the show......

[Ser Meryn Frey]

This is the most stupid type of comment ever:

Maybe you should try and adapt your own massive book series to TV before you get so high and mighty.

WHAT? Do we have to have done something ourselves to have the right to critize? It's not as if he's saying "höhöh they are bunch of ugly pus***s". He's giving serious comments. That's more than what you can say.

[scotcat]

Maybe you should try and adapt your own massive book series to TV before you get so high and mighty.

This is the way I see it.

GRRM stated more than once he wanted to write something so massive it would be pretty much unfilmable. The fact we even have a tv series to complain about is remarkable.

It was never going to be possible to do a page for page adaptation, so people need to get over it. Books and television are two totally different mediums - what works well in one won't for the other.

Tv shows have budgets and GoT's budget is massive, but there is still only so much they can fit in to the time they are given with the money they have. At the end of the day, if the show displeases you that much, if you can't handle changes of any sort, stop watching and stick with the books. It's the only way you'll be happy on the end.

[Neidio]

I too think the Manderly plot will be cut. But I have no idea how they will resolve the whole "the North remembers" and the North revenge against the Boltons and Freys.

How much can the show cut? Will the Freys also be cut from hereafter? Will Ramsay marry? Will there be multiple houses in Winterfell or will the show only have the Boltons there?

I guess we can be pretty sure Stannis will lead a battle against Boltons in the show. My thoughts on this is that the show will merge most of the northern houses with Stannis and let him revenge the Starks. Maybe the show will fast forward it and let Stannis attack Winterfell from the start (no delay in the forests) and there free Theon (I don't think Theon will save an innocent girl in the show, my gut feeling).

Or the show could cut out the whole thing like they did when the NW was north of the wall and attacked by the Others. They basically showed the three horn blasts and the next thing Sam was running away from the battle. Maybe they'll do something similar with the Stannis-Bolton battle? One scene where Stannis and his cavalry rush to Winterfell and the next scene (maybe season 6 material?) show Stannis is in Winterfell?

The show will have too much to focus on in Kings Landing and Dorne to get in depth with the north plot.

[Cas Stark]

This is the way I see it.

GRRM stated more than once he wanted to write something so massive it would be pretty much unfilmable. The fact we even have a tv series to complain about is remarkable.

It was never going to be possible to do a page for page adaptation, so people need to get over it. Books and television are two totally different mediums - what works well in one won't for the other.

Tv shows have budgets and GoT's budget is massive, but there is still only so much they can fit in to the time they are given with the money they have. At the end of the day, if the show displeases you that much, if you can't handle changes of any sort, stop watching and stick with the books. It's the only way you'll be happy on the end.

Hmmmm.

Manderly is one guy. I am sure HBO could afford to cast him. The White Harbor scenes are interior, so, no need to add a new location shoot, very cheap.

Manderly is good TV, and he even follows the "shock/surprise" MO of the show. You think he's a coward, who has betrayed the good guys....and then....boom, you find out, he's not. He's in fact a badass good guy.

This is everything that HBO likes in the show, so there is no excuse not to cast him.

[Le Cygne]

But by this time in the narrative, Arya, Bran and Sansa are all in relatively safe places and are all already on their life paths. Why would you need to regain hope for them when they are doing, well, good?

Arya and Sansa are neither safe nor doing well at all... Nor, one would hope, are these their "life paths"...

[Janicia]

We really don't have much news about the season 5 Winterfell arc. It is premature to believe that there won't be a northern lord that betrays Bolton because he's angry about the Red Wedding. I really can't imagine that would be cut.

I don't think Winterfell will get a ton of screen time this season. The entire northern story will be a main plot arc, but that story is split into at least three sub arcs (Wall, Winterfell, Stannis, maybe Sam), none of which will rival Kings Landing or Mereen for screen time.