Stannis's Lawyer Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Seven save me... What does my first post say? You even quoted it. The Freys died and were butchered for meat, who cares?Ah sorry, I misunderstood your point completely. :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordManderlyAsDragonRider Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 The wives and servants did not get killed IIRC.Good, then I have no complains about anything that happened:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis's Lawyer Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Good, then I have no complains about anything that happened:) I doubt that the wives and servants were not killed since Manderly complains about how one of the Frey wives were paying people to spy on him and the servants were getting Manderly men spying on him too. I don't really have a problem with the responsible Frey wives and servants being punished justly. It's just that pies were not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs_Darcy Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I think my feelings about the Freys being cooked can be expressed by a quote of Schiller about the curse of evil deeds. This is the curse of every evil deedThat propagating still it brings forth evil IMO, when the Freys violated the oldest and most sacred custom of Westeros, they basically said: "All is fair now consequences be damned", so they should not be surprised if other people lower their standards as well. It is also worth noting, that the Rat Cook feeding the king his son would have been socially acceptable, if the son had not been killed while being a guest of the Night's Watch. Since Manderly made sure to kill the Freys AFTER they left, he did not commit a big crime in the eyes of Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Broke Howard Hughes Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs_Darcy Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I doubt that the wives and servants were not killed since Manderly complains about how one of the Frey wives were paying people to spy on him and the servants were getting Manderly men spying on him too. I don't really have a problem with the responsible Frey wives and servants being punished justly. It's just that pies were not... I do not see, how Manderly could get away with killing the wives of the Freys and their servants, since it was stressed, that these people stayed in White Harbour, when the three Freys left to attend the wedding. Remember, that he still claims, that Symond, Rhaegar and the third had an accident on the road and that he does not know, what happened to them. He probably had to kill some men-at-arms, that laccompanied the three Freys to Riverrun, but the rest of their retinue should still be safe in WH: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis's Lawyer Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I do not see, how Manderly could get away with killing the wives of the Freys and their servants, since it was stressed, that these people stayed in White Harbour, when the three Freys left to attend the wedding. Remember, that he still claims, that Symond, Rhaegar and the third had an accident on the road and that he does not know, what happened to them. He probably had to kill some men-at-arms, that laccompanied the three Freys to Riverrun, but the rest of their retinue should still be safe in WH:I must say that I doubt that Wyman would allow the Freys to continue spying on the Merman's Court. Maybe imprisonment in the Wolf's Den, not death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mychel_Redfort Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 When Jaime is at Harrenhal to free Wylis Manderly, we learn that Gregor Clegane has fed Wylis with parts of Vargo Hoat's corpse. We can assume that Wylis told his father, so could this be the reason Wyman decided to use cannibalism too ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimim Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 ... Are you okay with Robbwind and Catelyn being thrown naked into a river then? Because their dead so who cares? The fault is with Manderly for desecrating their corpses. The tragedy is the breaking of guest right, and the way they were killed. Cat, in particular, watched her son die, which has got to be the most horrific thing imaginable. After that, who cares what they do with the bodies? Also, given a choice between having my own corpse tossed in the river or being buried, I'll take the river any day. I love water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis's Lawyer Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 When Jaime is at Harrenhal to free Wylis Manderly, we learn that Gregor Clegane has fed Wylis with parts of Vargo Hoat's corpse. We can assume that Wylis told his father, so could this be the reason Wyman decided to use cannibalism too ? IIRC he didn't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mychel_Redfort Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 IIRC he didn't know. He didn't know when he ate, but surely the Mountain's men would have tell him the truth thereafter, no ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis's Lawyer Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 He didn't know when he ate, but surely the Mountain's men would have tell him the truth thereafter, no ? They would probably have mentioned his reaction to Jaime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat of the Rivers Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 IMO, when the Freys violated the oldest and most sacred custom of Westeros, they basically said: "All is fair now consequences be damned", so they should not be surprised if other people lower their standards as well. It is also worth noting, that the Rat Cook feeding the king his son would have been socially acceptable, if the son had not been killed while being a guest of the Night's Watch. Since Manderly made sure to kill the Freys AFTER they left, he did not commit a big crime in the eyes of Westeros. So that means that their corpses deserve to be pies? The Freys are people regardless of the acts that they committed. The Freys deserve death (even so just the ones responsible for the RW) but not desecration of their corpses, being fed their relatives, torture etc. Yes, he did not do a huge crime in the eyes of Westeros. But in the eyes of modern readers his act is morally abhorrent. The tragedy is the breaking of guest right, and the way they were killed. Cat, in particular, watched her son die, which has got to be the most horrific thing imaginable. After that, who cares what they do with the bodies? Also, given a choice between having my own corpse tossed in the river or being buried, I'll take the river any day. I love water. The burial of the bodies is symbolic. It's where your soul occupied while you lived on this earth. It's important to lay the body to rest and respect it. At least this is my theory. Plus if you don't bury them (or cremated them) the bodies will rot. When you toss a corpse in the water without cremating it the body will rot and ruin the water. And it's horrific to throw a corpse naked into a body of water without burning it the way the Tullys do it (correct me if I'm wrong but didn't they dress Hoster's corpse in chainmail before the ceremony?). And the Freys were mocking the Tullys while doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs_Darcy Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I must say that I doubt that Wyman would allow the Freys to continue spying on the Merman's Court. Maybe imprisonment in the Wolf's Den, not death. He cannot imprison them without suspicion and Roose Bolton knowing it, since his maester is pro-Lannister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 You can argue that they deserved to die but I don't think that anyone deserves to be victim of cannibalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat of the Rivers Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 You can argue that they deserved to die but I don't think that anyone deserves to be victim of cannibalism. I agree completely. Nobody deserves to be turned into pies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A spoon of knife and fork Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Eh, a lot of the Freys didn't have Much choice in what they did. They are loyal to their liege first and foremost... So I don't really think they should be punished at all TBH. Walter Frey is the responsible party. as for the cannibalism in particular... it's not that bad. Torture/rape are far worse punishments, and being burnt alive or crucified are far worse ways to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 There had to be repercussions for what they did to Wyman's son. He just may have gone a little bit overboard (but so did the Freys). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis's Lawyer Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 He cannot imprison them without suspicion and Roose Bolton knowing it, since his maester is pro-Lannister.And who says his Maester is safe and sound instead of having died of stomach pains? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valyrian Lance Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I agree completely. Nobody deserves to be turned into pies. Only safe way to get rid of the bodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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