Sword of the Morgan Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 There were better ways to kill them. I don't really understand Manderly eating the pie. How is that fun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pib_Juju Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Innocents did suffer from their deaths. Including Alesander Frey. So what? Murderers often have families. They don't get to avoid prison or execution because someone might have the sads about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KozySauce Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 They deserved more than that. After the RW and then how they talked about it in White Harbour like it was some big joke, being posthumously baked into a pie is letting them off easy. Sure, mutilating someone's corpse is vile... but look at what they did to Robb! THEY PUT GREY WIND'S HEAD ON HIS BODY! That is just unspeakably cruel. And let's not forget about Cat, being dumped naked into a river like she was garbage while at the same time disrespecting her funeral traditions, how can you say they didn't deserve what they got and more? Saying no person deserves that is total BS imo, when you yourself strip someone of all their dignity, you don't deserve to keep yours either. Like someone said before, if the bodies of Robb, Cat, Greywind and all the other Northerners and Northern supporters who died at the RW were treated with respect instead of complete and utter disrespect, MAYBE what Manderly did would have been a little too far. But even then, violating guest right is still one of the worst things a person can do in Westeros, the way the bodies were treated is just making an already awful act even worse. Me personally, I respect Manderly for what he did, at least someone finally had the stones to dole out some real justice in the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-26dp Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 The worst part about this wasn't the pie-making, but Manderly feeding them to so many people at Winterfell. Plus, I'm not typically into corpse desecration. I'm sure they were butchered kosher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 There is a big big big huge difference between the deaths of the Red Wedding, the deaths of war and what happened to the three Freys. In war, people die and kill. Red Wedding wasn't war. If Robb and his men had been killed in battle, no one would mind. Or at least, no one would be so scandalised by their deaths. Hey! It's war! Things like this happen in war. Red Wedding was a massacre perpetrated by betrayal. You don't invite a man to your house and offer him truce (which is what Guest Right is) and kill him during dinner. That's what the Freys did: they disrespected one of the most holy traditions in Westeros, followed by Andals, First Men and everyone alike, and then, they desecrated the bodies of those they killed. They committed not only a crime but the most terrible crime of all crimes. After that, they have lost, to the rest of men's eyes, any kind of right to be respected as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-26dp Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 There were better ways to kill them. I don't really understand Manderly eating the pie. How is that fun? Because it's even more fun to think about where those Freys end up *after* they are eaten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis's Lawyer Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 @KozySauceHave you considered that "Freys mutilated Robb's body so their bodies should be mutilated" is rather illogical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightstar_ Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Because human beings are not animals. And like Dimples had said treating other human beings like that strips them of their humanity. Euhm, yes we are. We're just smart animals who think way too highly of themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Human Beings are indeed animals.... someone wasn't paying attention in school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booknerd2 Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Guest Right is multipurpose. There is not one lord in Westeros that does not have a job as lord that is very public and they have to constantly have allies, troops, all kinds of guests, kin, non-relatives, frenemies, you name it under their roof too. It is a constant, shitty, balancing act. Their estates are always open, there are holiday, feasts, celebrations, and matters of ruling when people that you have good status or bad terms with, or that you know you don't really know ever if it will turn or not. So because of that there is Guest Right. Even families not involved don't ever want this shit to happen (RW) and don't like it because they worry about themselves. It breached the status quo and their peace of mind. You do NOT want this precedent. Whether we heard about it or not. That is what all the characters are thinking. That is why they are never going to get away from it. Apparently, not the Freys, Boltons, and the rest. But they do know now. Everything is going quicker down hill since then. A big taboo/line was crossed. Anyone involved is done. You don't touch guest right. You don't lure people and ambush them. A deal was in place. For whatever Robb did, Walder got a helluva nice consolation with a tie to Edumure and the Riverlands. Robb didn't leave him with his hand on his ass. He still had the Arya wedding promise. I mean, thank God my girl is out of it, but I don't remember Robb or Cat breaking it either. And maybe more things down the road if Walder bitched them to death. That might have even, as I posted before, gave an ok to other Northern or Riverlands Houses to marry a Frey. He had it good, ruined that, and then brought about the destruction of his House. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Human beings have been eaten too. "Alive", anybody? Of course, that's not the situation here, but still, it's not like humans won't do that in case of desperate need (we see that in Dance too, btw). But, let's remember that the Rat Cook wasn't punished for serving people but for breaking the GR. The Frey's actions included what they did with the bodies of Robb's and Cat's, because they were their guests, not because they were expected of them to treat their bodies in some special matter. And Manderly's actions were a payback for breaking the guest right, as he was pretty sure to first give the Freys gifts and not getting them hurt while they were still guests under his roof. For the Westerosis, as he didn't break GR, he's not as much as a monster as the Freys were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHouseHB Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Yes now Black Walder and Emmon Frey need to be strapped to a pole, get whipped and skinned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis's Lawyer Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Yes now Black Walder and Emmon Frey need to be strapped to a pole, get whipped and skinned.Why wouldn't plain old beheading be enough? Despite their reputations in this forum, UnCat is much more humanitarian than Manderly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UVA Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Yes, because it makes me giggle. Oh good, I'm not the only one who thinks it's absurdly funny. Because "an eye for an eye makes everyone blind." Perhaps the subtext of the Frey pie incident is to question the morality of retributive justice -- a major theme in the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Oh good, I'm not the only one who thinks it's absurdly funny. Wyman Manderly is one of the best sources of black humor in the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat of the Rivers Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Euhm, yes we are. We're just smart animals who think way too highly of themselves. Human Beings are indeed animals.... someone wasn't paying attention in school. I did not mean that in a biological sense. And there's a lot of difference between animals and human beings. Namely, humans possess a high order of thought process. Why wouldn't plain old beheading be enough?Despite their reputations in this forum, UnCat is much more humanitarian than Manderly. Oh, the irony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Despite their reputations in this forum, UnCat is much more humanitarian than Manderly. Also the Freys, Lannisters, and Boltons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightstar_ Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I did not mean that in a scientific sense. I meant that human beings have humanity in them while animals do not. Even if we are all classified as animals there's a lot of difference between a human and an animal. Humans have consciences for instance. Just because you did not mean anything in a "scientific sense" does not justify you just throwing untrue statements about. The line between "animals and humans" is much closer than you clearly give it credit for. As for "only humans have conscience" that's something that's totally not proven. But this is getting pretty far off-topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 You guys suck the fun out of everything. Wyman Manderly baked a Frey pie (and then he ate it!) and you all are like, "but what about morals, abloo-bloo-bloo." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightstar_ Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 You guys suck the fun out of everything. Wyman Manderly baked a Frey pie (and then he ate it!) and you all are like, "but what about morals, abloo-bloo-bloo." ^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.