Lee-Sensei Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 No. It was immoral and disgusting. Feeding Frey's to their family is evil. Manderly crossed a line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 A proper hanging with a good long drop is far more humane than lethal injection. I'm against the death penalty but if a state is going to do it, they should try to make it as quick and painless as possible. Lethal injection is really more about making it APPEAR humane and non-violent, to make the death penalty more palatable. I personally think if we are going to execute people, it should be in public, televised, and done by a 12-gauge shotgun blast to the head. Make people see the ugly reality of killing people and see if they still want the state doing it on their behalf.The worst part about the death penalty, aside from knowing that means a certain % of innocent people will be killed by society, meaning by death penalty logic we should all be executed, or the increased violent crime stats in death penalty regions, or the greater number of innocent people who will cop to a guilty plea rather than face being killed, or the...okay, wait, i'll start again.One of the worst things about the death penalty is knowing that at such and such a time on such and such a day you will die, as determined by a clerical process. Everyone knows. Your friends know, your family know, and nothing will stop it. The psychological hyperfuck that will do to a human being is at the upper range of what most sadistic serial killers ever hope to achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 No, but it was hilarious, so im fine with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimples Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 So all Freys and Frey's kin (except Olyvar, Perwyn and Alesander) who were at theTwins should be killed? Sure makes sense. I'm not trying to say that. I just find it hard to believe that Rhaegar, Symond and Jared (who are all pretty slimy, especially Symond) had no part in the Red Wedding, as you claimed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimim Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 It depends on how you are hanged. If you throw the rope over a branch and pull the person up from the ground, yes, they will be strangled (though they may pass out from lack of oxygen to the brain from blood flow being cut off before they would have died if they were just asphyxiated). However, the type of hanging where you put someone up on a stool or platform and then drop them with the noose around the neck usually breaks the neck, depending on the weight of the person and how far they drop. They had formulae in more modern times for determining how far the person must drop to be sure of a quick death, based on their weight. This was balanced against the fact that if the drop was too big, the hanging victim would often be decapitated, which achieves the same goal but was something most executioners tried to avoid when hanging.The way Brienne and Podrick are hanged is slow. They're suffocating when Brienne chooses the sword. Btw I'm against the death penalty, too. No one in Westeros would sympathize with that take, though. Jon, Ned, Robb, Dany all execute people. Dany's method, crucifixion, is really nasty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MindLikeWarp Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I think it is fine and totally justified. When it eventually comes out and the singers sing songs about it, it will serve to send a message. Play nice or we won't play nice either. Punishment serves society far better than justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullen Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I think it is fine and totally justified. When it eventually comes out and the singers sing songs about it, it will serve to send a message. Play nice or we won't play nice either. Punishment serves society far better than justice. That could also be said of the Red Wedding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 One of the worst things about the death penalty is knowing that at such and such a time on such and such a day you will die, as determined by a clerical process. Everyone knows. Your friends know, your family know, and nothing will stop it. The psychological hyperfuck that will do to a human being is at the upper range of what most sadistic serial killers ever hope to achieve. Is this always the case? I would think that in some cases (not all) this knowledge would bring a sense of peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 The Freys should have seen that visiting the North carried a high likelihood of violent death. The fact that they visited with a cocky attitude and insulting, ludicrous stories made it a near certainty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 What? I know both are very vile. If you'd bothered to read this thread you'd notice that I never said Manderly did anything remotely approaching justice when he made those pies. But what Manderly did is less vile because it caused less suffering. I'm not sure I understand the part "less suffering". How is killing a person to eat him imposing less suffering than killing a person at a wedding? Or do you refer to the body count alone? I assume you mean in the real world where guest right is barely a thing because the gods and traditions of Westeros seem to disagree with you (see Rat Cook). And as you might figure from the story the fact that the Rat Cook was forced into cannibalism AND kinslaying is supposed to be a HUGE punishment, not just some "oh, well" stuff. Not at all. Murdering guests is, as you said, about as low as a person can go, and way beyond taboo. It demands a response in kind. Anyone who would murder guests at a wedding feast can't really complain about *any* breach of social norms. I don't argue that Manderly didn't have a right to kill those Freys. I am arguing that going down to the essentially same level as the Freys is not the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehandwipes Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Do you think Roose knew he was eating manflesh, the faintest of smiles passing over his lips? Do you think he mentioned it to Ramsay later in the evening as he was helping himself to left-overs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MindLikeWarp Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 That could also be said of the Red Wedding.I don't see how the same could be said for the Red Wedding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illyrio+varys forever Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 one of the Freys was supposed to marry his granddaughter, he would never allow that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Turning them into pies was evil, but very funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 The worst part about the death penalty, aside from knowing that means a certain % of innocent people will be killed by society, meaning by death penalty logic we should all be executed, or the increased violent crime stats in death penalty regions, or the greater number of innocent people who will cop to a guilty plea rather than face being killed, or the...okay, wait, i'll start again.One of the worst things about the death penalty is knowing that at such and such a time on such and such a day you will die, as determined by a clerical process. Everyone knows. Your friends know, your family know, and nothing will stop it. The psychological hyperfuck that will do to a human being is at the upper range of what most sadistic serial killers ever hope to achieve.Psychologically, it's far worse not to know when you're going to executed. In Japan, you're woken up and told you'll be hanged. If you're on death row, you go to bed each night, not knowing if you'll be hanged tomorrow. That really screws people up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOT A TARG I SWEAR Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Because human beings are not animals. And like Dimples had said treating other human beings like that strips them of their humanity. Ya you're completely and utterly wrong about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz Stark-Targaryen Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 The North remembers. And with winter coming, might not only be the Rat Cook and Wyman Manderly cooking people into pies. /shrug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullen Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I don't see how the same could be said for the Red Wedding. By seceding violently from the Seven Kingdoms, the Northmen elite committed a grievous crime starting a war costing the lives of many innocents, they punished them by sending a message, play nice or we won't play nice... The Northmen would now think twice before seceding. Hell, the exact same excuse is given after the massacre of the Tarbecks, the Castameres, and the Darklyns. It doesn't make it any more justified/right. "They committed an atrocity, so let's do something even worse to them!" is even dumber than the law of talion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MindLikeWarp Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 By seceding violently from the Seven Kingdoms, the Northmen elite committed a grievous crime starting a war costing the lives of many innocents, they punished them by sending a message, play nice or we won't play nice... The Northmen would now think twice before seceding. Hell, the exact same excuse is given after the massacre of the Tarbecks, the Castameres, and the Darklyns. It doesn't make it any more justified/right. "They committed an atrocity, so let's do something even worse to them!" is even dumber than the law of talion.Well I'll have to agree to disagree. I think there is a beginning to any conflict, and reading this story, i believe the Freys started their conflict with the Starks and the North. I believe when someone punches you first, you have the right to punch back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MindLikeWarp Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 By seceding violently from the Seven Kingdoms, the Northmen elite committed a grievous crime starting a war costing the lives of many innocents, they punished them by sending a message, play nice or we won't play nice... The Northmen would now think twice before seceding. Hell, the exact same excuse is given after the massacre of the Tarbecks, the Castameres, and the Darklyns. It doesn't make it any more justified/right. "They committed an atrocity, so let's do something even worse to them!" is even dumber than the law of talion.Also I don't see how it is worse, and responding is not dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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