How would you like Dany to meet Jon?

[KingOfTheRock]

When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east.

[sj4iy]

Jon and Dany are complete opposites. In fact, they are so opposite, I think the book was named after their oppositeness. I mean, Dany is clearly the main fire character, she is all fury and act before you think. Jon is the opposite, he is cold and slow moving, calculated and doesn't let passion get in the way of his sense.

Not true for either of them. Dany is impulsive and doesn't do much long-term planning, but she is compassionate and merciful at times, too.

And Jon has his moments of passion without thinking- look at how he attacks Thorne when Thorne insults him. Jon has a temper, and while it doesn't flare often, it does flare bright when it does.

I think you have over-simplified both of their personalities a great deal. They are most definitely not polar opposites...and actually, the last book paralleled their experiences with leadership- Jon as LC of the NW and Dany as Queen of Mereen. Both made mistakes and both did good things, but both ended in disaster despite their good intentions. Dany aimed to please too much to her detriment, and Jon refused to please to his. But both learned quite a lot about leading that will no doubt come into play in the last two books.

[El Guapo]

Even if they were complete opposites when has that ever stopped people from being attracted to each other and falling in love?

(not that I want this to happen)

[scotcat]

I hope they won't.

However, assuming Jon is alive after the assassination attempt (and we don't know as yet whether or not he has survived), I have a feeling they're going to end up meeting at some point down the line.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

It's the fact that so many people see them falling in love as "obvious" that I don't think it's going to happen. It's too pat, to saccharine, too easily expected, too Disney, too insert-your-word-here. Why people expect something to happen because it's "obvious" when the author has a made a point to avoid the "obvious" makes no sense to me. It's based on nothing more than "main guy + main girl = lurve," and no offense but I like to give the author a bit more credit than to write something so .... done.

Not to mention that I think there are enough clues to suggest some friction between them, like the connotation of "sweetness" being bad for Dany, the fact that Jon thinks of Florent with contempt knowing he stood by and let his brother be killed (and if you think that wasn't very deliberately done, I have a bridge to sell you), and Jon's lack of respect for Selyse. And Jon isn't exactly her type either. If GRRM is going to convincingly write that these two would want anything to do with each other romantically, he has a long way to go.

They're gonna fall in love. The fact that so many people are adamant it won't happen is hilarious to me because it's just so... obvious, but in a good way. It's a natural progression for the story. They're like Rhaegar and Lyanna.

They are absolutely nothing like Rhaegar and Lyanna.

[The King in Black]

More importantly, what does Hope Eternal Spring or whatever think about it?

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

I really don't care if Jon/Dany happens, and I suspect it won't because this is GRRM, but the reasons against it are frankly insulting to Dany fans. Everything that people list on these interminable threads to say this won't happen is a knock against Dany's character.

I am so sick of people on these boards characterizing Daenerys Targaryen as a Stupid Whore... no, people don't always use those words, but that's what they amount to. How dare a young woman exercise any degree of sexual agency? How dare she choose a sexual partner because she's attracted to him? How dare she "friend zone" her much-older adviser? Everyone knows that women ​owe sex to any man who is kind to them and supports them!

Count me in the crowd who would love to see these boards' reaction. I'm just glad that GRRM is writing my favorite character, and not those who hate her.

Not true for either of them. Dany is impulsive and doesn't do much long-term planning, but she is compassionate and merciful at times, too.

And Jon has his moments of passion without thinking- look at how he attacks Thorne when Thorne insults him. Jon has a temper, and while it doesn't flare often, it does flare bright when it does.

I think you have over-simplified both of their personalities a great deal. They are most definitely not polar opposites...and actually, the last book paralleled their experiences with leadership- Jon as LC of the NW and Dany as Queen of Mereen. Both made mistakes and both did good things, but both ended in disaster despite their good intentions. Dany aimed to please too much to her detriment, and Jon refused to please to his. But both learned quite a lot about leading that will no doubt come into play in the last two books.

Yes, that poster did, and attacked me out of the blue (likely because among Dany fans, I have a relatively low post count). I may be new to this fandom, but I'm an old hand with a ton of experience in fantasy fandoms... even have run a con or two before. I am not the one. This skin is thick.

Anyway, you're very right, and this is why I think they'd be friends. They are literally two of the only POV characters who are going to understand their experiences. Both their fathers died before they were born. Both their mothers died in childbirth. Both children were in literal danger of their lives growing up, although Dan didn't know that he was. They never really had a true home -- Jon loved Winterfell but grew up knowing he wasn't a Stark. Dany felt at home in the house with the lemon tree and the red door in her earliest childhood, but she always knew that she wasn't Essosi, even if her ancestors came from there.

(People claiming that Dany belongs in Essos are not logical. In our world, 95% of Americans' ancestors were in the Old World 300 years ago, and no one is claiming we belong off the North American continent. If the Targ culture is "foreign" to Westeros, then ours is "foreign" to North America. Sorry, but the girl is an exile and her family's true home is still Dragonstone, not the Smoking Sea.)

In adulthood, both went into situations where they would no longer be politically viable. Jon chose the Wall, where in another universe, he could've ended up like Maester Aemon, the blood of the dragon who lives and died as a man of the Night's Watch. Dany had the life of a Dothraki Khaleesi chosen for her. Both rose to leadership positions under the leaders, Jon as Jeor Mormont's steward, and Dany as Khal Drogo's wife. Both have had tragedy strike these leaders, and rose to the occasion after their deaths to lead in their place.

Both of them lost their first love tragically -- Jon lost Ygritte, and of course Dany lost Drogo -- but those losses were directly tied into their maturation. Both of them have grieved and moved on to a new lover, Dany with Daario in the last book and perhaps Jon with Val in the next. And yes, as you know, both have made incredible, heart-breaking mistakes, and both have suffered for it. When we last see them, Jon has been stabbed by his own men, and Dany is wandering around the Dothraki Sea, quite ill and in danger.

Yes, they will be friends. It's not going to be as simple as "Jon isn't going to like Dany's attitude of entitlement." We don't know how Dany is going to come out of this experience, or for that matter, how Jon will. To say that she's entitled is to dismiss her capacity for growth and change when people aren't doing the same for Jon. Dany has grown and changed since the first book. If some can't see that, that's their issue, not GRRM's.

Didn't stop his pops.

:lmao: Rhaegar had a prophecy to fulfill, a third head of the dragon to make... and a problem in his expensive breeches that only a certain she-wolf of Winterfell could solve, apparently.

According to some of Dany's detractors, Jon is a man of the Night's Watch and restraint is his middle name. He will be most happily married to Val sometime within the next book or two. Off limits to that !*@#)!@ Dany!

Because Jon Snow never breaks his vows. Ever. For any reason... :cool4:

Even JK Rowling thinks it was a mistake to not have Harry and Hermione hook up ;)

:lol:

Well, as this ranting poster above says, Harry and Hermione aren't a great analogy anyway, because Jon and Dany are supposedly opposites.

We know that men and women who are opposites, who are like fire and ice, who are like oil and water are never, ever attracted to one another. That just absolutely Does Not Happen in the real world! You know we all want to have sex with those who are just like us!

After all, Jon's dad was attracted to a girl who was just like him, right? Runs in the family!

The flailing of Daenerys haters is starting to amuse me. And I haven't even got 500 posts yet!

Even though I to think it's more likely that they'll hook up eventually (and God, I just hope to see the meltdown on this board when ADOS comes out), I don't think Rhaegar-Lyanna is the mould for them. I'm getting more a Good Queen Alysanne and Jaehaerys vibe. I mean both Jon and Daenerys have gone through a lot more than Lyanna and Rhaegar ever did.

Well, GRRM did say he wanted to know how Aragorn II Elessar and Arwen actually ruled, since Tolkien gave no details, so we'll see. I am not impressed with GRRM's romance writing so far, as someone who loves to read in that genre, but if he does it well, I'm sold easily I think. For instance, I didn't see Sam and Gilly coming until it happened, but when it did, I thought it was adorable. (He needs not write sex scenes, though. That is NOT George's strong suit. :))

Unlike some, I actually like these characters and if they're happy, I'm happy.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I really don't care if Jon/Dany happens, and I suspect it won't because this is GRRM, but the reasons against it are frankly insulting to Dany fans. Everything that people list on these interminable threads to say this won't happen is a knock against Dany's character.

I'm not sure why it's an unfair knock against Dany's character when the reasons I can think of for Jon to dislike her -- standing by while Viserys was killed, trying to run a place she knows nothing about, like Selyse, for instance -- are things she's actually done.

And I have said absolutely nothing about Dany having sex with Daario or her owing sex to Jorah, so I'm not even going to acknowledge those points. I'll just give you a heads up that there are myriad reasons to find flaws in Dany's character besides her sex life, which is her own business.

You say Dany fans are insulted. I say Dany detractors are equally insulted when people like you write off our criticisms as nothing more than saying, "Meh, Dany's a whore."

[JonSnow4President]

It's the fact that so many people see them falling in love as "obvious" that I don't think it's going to happen. It's too pat, to saccharine, too easily expected, too Disney, too insert-your-word-here. Why people expect something to happen because it's "obvious" when the author has a made a point to avoid the "obvious" makes no sense to me. It's based on nothing more than "main guy + main girl = lurve," and no offense but I like to give the author a bit more credit than to write something so .... done.

Not to mention that I think there are enough clues to suggest some friction between them, like the connotation of "sweetness" being bad for Dany, the fact that Jon thinks of Florent with contempt knowing he stood by and let his brother be killed (and if you think that wasn't very deliberately done, I have a bridge to sell you), and Jon's lack of respect for Selyse. And Jon isn't exactly her type either. If GRRM is going to convincingly write that these two would want anything to do with each other romantically, he has a long way to go.

They are absolutely nothing like Rhaegar and Lyanna.

The hidden prince thing is also overdone. But like with many things Martin, I expect him to actually create some of the more overly done tropes, and turn them on their head. I'd agree if Jon and Dany fall in love, and live happily ever after, that's not Martin. But Jon and Dany fall in love, and it breaks apart horribly for either internal or external reasons? I think that's very Martin.

You say Dany fans are insulted. I say Dany detractors are equally insulted when people like you write off our criticisms as nothing more than saying, "Meh, Dany's a whore."

Count me in this group. Dany can bone whoever she wants, and I won't ever extend her further criticism for it than what I would give to Robb (making political mistakes) or possibly Cersei (infidelity, not that Dany has yet).

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

The hidden prince thing is also overdone. But like with many things Martin, I expect him to actually create some of the more overly done tropes, and turn them on their head. I'd agree if Jon and Dany fall in love, and live happily ever after, that's not Martin. But Jon and Dany fall in love, and it breaks apart horribly for either internal or external reasons? I think that's very Martin.

I'd argue that he's sufficiently tweaking the hidden prince thing. Jon finds out he's Rhaegar's son, and instead of being overjoyed like Harry when he got his Hogwarts letter, he's devastated because Ned isn't his father. He finds out he's the Targaryen heir, but no one believes him because there's no easily attainable proof. He finds out he's the Targaryen heir but decides to never publicize it, choosing to stay Jon Snow. He has the chance to take the throne and turns it down. Any of those outcomes are plausible, and I'd argue that the first is probable bordering on definite. So even the trope he's playing the most straight has its modifications.

The bolded/underlined bit is something I could sort of see happening, because I really do think that they're ultimately unsuited for each other. The "happily ever after" bullshit, though, no.

[larastone]

can't wait for Dany and Jon to hook up to see this place freak out

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

You say Dany fans are insulted. I say Dany detractors are equally insulted when people like you write off our criticisms as nothing more than saying, "Meh, Dany's a whore."

Count me in this group. Dany can bone whoever she wants, and I won't ever extend her further criticism for it than what I would give to Robb (making political mistakes) or possibly Cersei (infidelity, not that Dany has yet).

OK, maybe I got heated for being personally attacked out of the blue for something I didn't say, and for the record, neither of you attacked me.

Dany detractors have criticisms of her character that aren't based on her sexual choices. Got it.

[SeanF]

The circumstances in which Dany watched her brother die are very different to the circumstances in which Ser Axel Florent watched his brother die. Dany tried to save her brother's life. Ser Axel thought that burning him alive was the right thing to do.

But, I accept, Jon probably won't know this. People will assume that she connived in her brother's murder, and then murdered Drogo, to get ahead.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

can't wait for Dany and Jon to hook up to see this place freak out

I prefer to base my opinions and predictions on something other than petty spite, but you do you.

[JonSnow4President]

I'd argue that he's sufficiently tweaking the hidden prince thing. Jon finds out he's Rhaegar's son, and instead of being overjoyed like Harry when he got his Hogwarts letter, he's devastated because Ned isn't his father. He finds out he's the Targaryen heir, but no one believes him because there's no easily attainable proof. He finds out he's the Targaryen heir but decides to never publicize it, choosing to stay Jon Snow. He has the chance to take the throne and turns it down. Any of those outcomes are plausible, and I'd argue that the first is probable bordering on definite. So even the trope he's playing the most straight has its modifications.

The bolded/underlined bit is something I could sort of see happening, because I really do think that they're ultimately unsuited for each other. The "happily ever after" bullshit, though, no.

The hidden prince explanation is essentially what I'm getting at. I don't know how it's going to be subverted (although I've ever thought of or like the ones you just presented, and consider them likely), but I believe it will be far from cliche.

One of the big reasons I think the two will fall in love is because Dany will have the three husbands, assuming prophecy is correct. Personally, I think the two are the best possible candidates for PTWP/AA. And Lightbringer needs a Nissa Nissa, and if Jon is the husband to love, Dany will know a betrayal for love, so I think one of the two betrays the other.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

The circumstances in which Dany watched her brother die are very different to the circumstances in which Ser Axel Florent watched his brother die. Dany tried to save her brother's life. Ser Axel thought that burning him alive was the right thing to do.

But, I accept, Jon probably won't know this. People will assume that she connived in her brother's murder, and then murdered Drogo, to get ahead.

I'm aware of that. My point is, there are two versions: what actually happened, and what people think happened. As you pointed out. And we're already seeing this play out in some ways, so I don't see the issue here.

OK, maybe I got heated for being personally attacked out of the blue for something I didn't say, and for the record, neither of you attacked me.

Dany detractors have criticisms of her character that aren't based on her sexual choices. Got it.

Then maybe you should address the people who actually attacked you instead of using blanket terms like "everything" and "everyone."

[larastone]

I prefer to base my opinions and predictions on something other than petty spite, but you do you.

it was just a joke calm down

[JonSnow4President]

OK, maybe I got heated for being personally attacked out of the blue for something I didn't say, and for the record, neither of you attacked me.

Dany detractors have criticisms of her character that aren't based on her sexual choices. Got it.

Oh, believe me, I hate those Dany haters just as much as you do. Makes me feel dirty for being on the same side.

[Lord Damian]

I want Jon to reject all things Targaryen except the Iron thone itself (if it comes to that). Jon loved Ned like a son loves a father and his siblings are his brethren, Arya is his close sister. Jon knows what the Mad King (his grampa) did and was, he is a Stark by desire and by the way he was raised. The only thing Targaryen in him is perhaps his birhright and perhaps, perhaps a bonding potential to dragons.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

it was just a joke calm down

Yes that's why I see it constantly, including in multiple places on this thread. Because who cares what actually happens or the quality of the story, what really matters is the fun of seeing other people get upset, amirite?

You have one side here arguing about plot and characterization, and another that has to ultimately resort to the spiteful, "I want it to happen just to see people get mad" thing. Three guesses which one is which. If the Jon/Dany lurve brigade's best argument for it happening is because it'd piss people off, maybe their case isn't particularly all that strong.