Happy Ent Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I can’t think of anything else in Eärwa that would have the effect of a dragon spewing fire (namely, directed fiery destruction at close to medium range). So the Dragonhead makes complete sense. It’s not necessary for me, or anybody in Eärwa, to have ever seen a dragon. If Eärwan anagogic scholars knew what a modern flamethrower was, they could have built a spell that resembled that. (It would be very entertaining to hear suggestions for other anagogic spells. A case could be made for an erupting volcano, which would have the same use as the falling sun. I fully expect a spell like that to have been researched at some time. It may work, they may all know it. But since it does the same as a Falling Sun, either the Volcano or the Falling Sun is better (more damage, faster, whatever), so one of them would be preferred in most situations. In fact, the spell I call “Volcano” could be the Meppa Cateract for all I know, so we may have seen it in action. Other ideas? Destructive phenomena in nature, or your imagination, that would make a good Anagogic spell?) There might be a case for an anagogic spell that simulated a Gnostic mage. It’s certainly something that an anagogic sorcerer can imagine and talk about, so they could have a spell that produces a ghostly image of Seswata using the Third Theorem of Whatever. But I think the possibility of such a construction could be rule out in-universe by some appeal to levels of abstraction. (“You can’t effectively think about a linguistically more abstract thing using a mere analogy” or something. Throw some early 20th century formal logic after that idea to dress it up and Bob’s your nuncle.) But out-of-universe it would simply not be very cool to have magicians simulate other magicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 cool analogy might be Arborescent Fury, wherein mighty oak roots, over the course of one thousand years, bust up through the adversary's sidewalks and garden paths, causing one's enemy mild aesthetic inconvenience thereby? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Ent Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 cool analogy might be Arborescent Fury, wherein mighty oak roots, over the course of one thousand years, bust up through the adversary's sidewalks and garden paths, causing one's enemy mild aesthetic inconvenience thereby? Ah, the sorcery of the ancient orchard. The Falling Apple! The Slightly Inconvenient Hedge! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madness Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 The Slightly Inconvenient Hedge has felled many a soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello World Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 How come a sorcerer doesn’t get burned by his own sorcery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Ent Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 How come a sorcerer doesn’t get burned by his own sorcery? Why shouldn’t they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello World Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 You mean that they do get burned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Because it would be inconvenient for the text if sorcerors were constantly hoisted with their own petards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello World Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 It just occurred to me that sorcerers have some cool ways to go if they ever choose to commit suicide. Because it would be inconvenient for the text if sorcerors were constantly hoisted with their own petards. But what is the in-world explanation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I doubt there is one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I doubt there is one?Maybe they HAVE to use a defensive ward while throwing fire and such? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Maybe their analogy doesn't include the burning of their own flesh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Clearly the programmer set the difficulty to turn off friendly fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Maybe they HAVE to use a defensive ward while throwing fire and such?Could be, I know Akkas always got some wards chilling on standby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Fool Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Maybe the specific analogy is that the sorcerer holds the dragon by the phallus, giving a tug to cause flame-breath, kind of like a big ethereal puppet that ejaculates fire from its mouth. A dragon wouldn't burn itself with its own fire, and the flame just wouldn't come anywhere near its large, thorny phallus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 yeah, just how do the persons with black seminal fluids not get hit by their own ejaculates? it's crazy! unable to suspend disbelief! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello World Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Maybe their analogy doesn't include the burning of their own flesh? Well, there’s that knife that cuts according to the ‘weilder’s intent’ so there could be some truth to this. But I’m also concerned about how Chorae work, which doesn’t seem that plausible to me. Consider this scene, The majestic head bowed. He turned to Balait, crying, “Run!” The horned maw opened and spewed blinding flame. Teeth snapped. Skin blistered and sloughed. But Cnaüir felt nothing, only the warmth thrown by Balait’s burning shadow. There was a momentary shriek, the sound of bones and bowels exploding. Then the froth of sun-bright fire was gone. Bewildered, Cnaüir found himself in the center of burnt ruin. Balait and the other Utemot still burned, sizzling like swine on the spit. The air smelt of ash and pork. How did Cnaiür only feel the warmth from Balait’s burning body but not the warmth from the air all around him that was heated by the dragon fire? And how does it make sense that he wasn’t hurt at all? I mean, if you stick your body into an oven you’ll get badly hurt even if the flames are not touching you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Well, theres that knife that cuts according to the weilders intent so there could be some truth to this. But Im also concerned about how Chorae work, which doesnt seem that plausible to me. Consider this scene, How did Cnaiür only feel the warmth from Balaits burning body but not the warmth from the air all around him that was heated by the dragon fire? And how does it make sense that he wasnt hurt at all? I mean, if you stick your body into an oven youll get badly hurt even if the flames are not touching you.Plausible? It's fucking magic. The chorae protects you from magic, so tje magical flames dont exist for Cnauir. Plus from the quote it could be simply artistic license with the description of what he feels the heat from. I'd agree its odd, if you need to really delve into it, that the superheated air doesn't scorch his lungs but a chorae bearer can be killed by bringing down the building they're in down on their head.Any magic system is going to fall apart on enough examination... Because it isn't real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello World Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Any magic system is going to fall apart on enough examination... Because it isn't real. I don’t see why. You might argue that Chorae is by design the point at which the magic system falls apart. But the problem is that Chorae seem to consistently operate under some set of rules. For instance, it protects what a person is wearing but not what they’re riding. I think Bakker should’ve introduced some randomness into the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Ent Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 For instance, it protects what a person is wearing but not what they’re riding. I think you make valid points, and I enjoy talking about such things. Basically I’m on your side: there must be a mistake somewhere. But let’s play the game: Bakkermagic is based on meaning – it’s a linguistic concept. Hence it makes perfect sense that the concepts of “target” includes what a person is wearing but not what he is riding, since that is exactly how language operates. The concept of “person” normally includes the person’s clothes. (“When I invited you to the party, I didn’t mean your clothes!” is silly. “We have room for you, but not for your horse” makes complete sense.) Superheated air is much more difficult to explain away. If the laws of physic works in Eärwa, I should be able to torch somebody with a Dragonhead or hit him with an Odanai Concussion Chant anyway, because of heated or compressed air. Or what? (Do note that we always have the following outs: Eärwa works like ancients believed. No evolution. Maybe also no physics – air doesn’t get warm, “rays from the sun” do. So do flames.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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