Stannis getting Dragonstone: Insult or honour?

[Lord Lannister]

Was his bro Bob fucking him over but giving baby Renly Storm's End, or was Robert trying to do what's best in suppressing the Targ loyalists at Dragonstone. Was he even showing Stannis that he's his heir? Although, it's a bit odd to give Stan the shitty castle forever as a gesture that would only make sense for the few years until Bob has an heir.

Personally I think it's a grievous fucking insult. If someone gave me Dragonstone I'd punch their mum in the face, I'd rather live in a mountain of hippopotamus shit in Flea Bottom. Fuck the king.

The funny thing is, if Robert gave Stannis Storm's End he'd probably be all pissy about not getting Dragonstone which is the seat of the rightful heir. :P

[mdw4950]

i think it was the best of both worlds for robert. he needed someone who could control any targaryen supporters in charge and stannis was better suited for that than renly. he also did it as kind of a slap in the face too. i could be wrong but i thought at one point the topic came up about how stannis thought dragonstone was a slight and cersei jumped in with 'and it was meant as a slight' or something along those lines.

[Consigliere]

Honour. As a second son, Stannis was not in line to inherit anything. Robert could just as easily retained DS and SE for his sons.

If he didnt love Renly why would he give him SE and not his first born son ???

SSM

Second: We discussed whether Robert loved his brother Renly or not. Haaruk thought so, while I never envisioned their relationship as more than lukewarm. (Jaime said Robert hardly could stomach his brothers (plural form)). Which is correct?

There are many different kinds of love. Robert was dutiful toward his brothers, and no doubt loved them in a way... but he didn't necessarily like them. His relations with Stannis were always prickly. Renly was the baby of the family, and spent little time in Robert's company until he was old enough to come to court. I suspect Robert was fond of the boy, but not especially close to him.

Stannis always resented being given Dragonstone while Renly got Storm's End, and took that as a slight... but it's not necessarily true that Robert meant it that way. The Targaryen heir apparent had always been titled Prince of Dragonstone. By making Stannis the Lord of Dragonstone, Robert affirmed his brother's status as heir (which he was, until Joff's birth a few years later). Robert could just as lawfully retained both castles for his sons, and made Joffrey the Prince of Dragonstone and Tommen the Lord of Storm's End. Giving them to his brothers instead was another instance of his great, but rather careless, generosity.

[Lady Meliora]

I kind of assumed that Robert's thought process was "Oh hey...Stannis captured Dragonstone. I'll give that to him. Since he's there, he doesn't need Storm's End. I guess Renly can have that one" and never gave another thought to how it might seem to Stannis. Robert strikes me as the sort of man who wants people to clap and thank him profusely for whatever he gives them, whether they want it or not. Look at his "gift" of the Hand position to Ned. Robert knew Ned would rather stay in Winterfell but expected him to nod and smile and come along anyway.

[The silver dragon]

insult he could have given the dragon stone to some other loyalist who fought for his side to reel in the lords of the narrow sea.

the part about stannis getting nothing is not true. he could have betrayed Robert during the rebellion and surrendered in exchange for a pardon. (which would have fucked the war effort gotten Robert killed and given stannis storms end.)

the part about the heir is bullshit to as once joff was born stannis was not heir to shit.

[Acnologia Targaryen]

Robert's gifts always seem to have honour and insult in them. Look at his gift to cersei and she had to wear that in silence, makes ned hand great honour that turned out to be.

[Gibzit]

It was a generosity, Stannis didn't deserve SE or Dragonstone (Niether did Renly).

[The silver dragon]

It was a generosity, Stannis didn't deserve SE or Dragonstone (Niether did Renly).

um yes he did deserve the storm end. he fought for Robert when he could have betrayed him.

he starved to hold that castle in Robert's name, lets see how long you would last in that situation.

beside generally speaking it's a bad idea for you to give both of your kid's power as that can result in civil war.

(as seen with renly and Stannis) in fact infighting between siblings is not all that uncommon in medieval society.

[Red Typer of Dorne]

Dragonstone was the seat of Targs and the traditional seat of Kings, It may be drear but it's one of the most secure castles in Weseros how can it be an insult? as previous posts have said, neither Stannis or Renly would be major Lord if not for Roberts generosity.

[Gibzit]

um yes he did deserve the storm end. he fought for Robert when he could have betrayed him.

he starved to hold that castle in Robert's name, lets see how long you would last in that situation.

beside generally speaking it's a bad idea for you to give both of your kid's power as that can result in civil war.

(as seen with renly and Stannis) in fact infighting between siblings is not all that uncommon in medieval society.

What about Jon, Ned or Hoster, none of which got anything and did much more for Robert's cause than Stannis, Robert had every right to keep both SE and Dragonstone for himself and later give them to his sons when they come of age,

[Guard of the Rainking]

Dragonstone was the seat of Targs and the traditional seat of Kings, It may be drear but it's one of the most secure castles in Weseros how can it be an insult? as previous posts have said, neither Stannis or Renly would be major Lord if not for Roberts generosity.

One could also argue that without Stannis Robert would not have become king.

[The silver dragon]

Dragonstone was the seat of Targs and the traditional seat of Kings, It may be drear but it's one of the most a secure castles in Weseros how can it be an insult? as previous posts have said, neither Stannis or Renly would be major Lord if not for Roberts generosity.

umm i think your forgetting the part where stom's end is considered the best castle in term's of defense.

yeah? and Robert would be dead if it were not for Stannis. if he had taken a more pragmatic rote he could have betrayed him and received storm's end instead of fighting for him.

[Trigger Warning]

Having a major castle, lordship and fief invested in you seems to be a major honour no matter how you cut it.

You could argue that receiving Storm's End instead of Renly would be more appropriate but I'd hardly call receiving Dragonstone an "insult".

[The silver dragon]

What about Jon, Ned or Hoster, none of which got anything and did much more for Robert's cause than Stannis, Robert had every right to keep both SE and Dragonstone for himself and later give them to his sons when they come of age,

and pray do tell me what could he have giving them? and i think your forgetting hand of the king title. which instead of giving to stannis one of his most loyal and trusted supporters he goes all the way to winter-fell to name ned a person he has not seen in year's it.

yeah? no i am quite sure none of them held of a force of like 40,000 troops singlehandedly! (an act which he get's absolutely no recognition for.)

as i have stated before giving both of your son's a powerful seat is asking for war when you die. as in medieval society it's generally not about whether or not you have the best but a claim. (and a army to back it up.)

[ManderlysPies]

I thought it was meant as a slight for Stannis not catching Viserys and Dany. Give him Dragonstone, in the eyes of Ned/Jon, to stop any Targ loyalist while the real story is denying him his home at Storms End.

Smart thing would of being given Stannis both. But then Robert married Cersei, pardoned Jaime and let the Tyrells/Martells off the hook. Wasn't exactly a period of great decision making from him.

[Shpati]

Stannis should have gotten both.

[The silver dragon]

Having a major castle, lordship and fief invested in you seems to be a major honour no matter how you cut it.

You could argue that receiving Storm's End instead of Renly would be more appropriate but I'd hardly call receiving Dragonstone an "insult".

for me or you yeah it would be a honer. But this is a world of self entitled nobles. (hence the word "noble")

for stannis storm's end was his right, as the eldest baratheon, a right which he was denied thus in medieval stander's a massive insult.

people have started rebellion's for less.

[Minsc]

yeah? and Robert would be dead if it were not for Stannis. if he had taken a more pragmatic rote he could have betrayed him and received storm's end instead of fighting for him.

Besides the fact that Aerys was just randomly ordering the execution of random relatives of traitors. Or the fact no one follow some nobody lord who betrays their kin at first opportunity.

for stannis storm's end was his right, as the eldest baratheon, a right which he was denied thus in medieval stander's a massive insult.

Stannis wasn't the eldest Baratheon.

[Trigger Warning]

for me or you yeah it would be a honer. But this is a world of self entitled nobles. (hence the word "noble")

for stannis storm's end was his right, as the eldest baratheon, a right which he was denied thus in medieval stander's a massive insult.

people have started rebellion's for less.

It's an honour for the nobility as well, he's a second son being granted a powerful lordship and fief whilst the elder brother is still alive. He was denied no right as Robert was still the Lord of Storm's End and the king and can invest it in whomever he likes.

Stannis may feel insulted because of his own sense of entitlement but within the feudal world he's still receiving a massive advancement.

[The silver dragon]

Besides the fact that Aerys was just randomly ordering the execution of random relatives of traitors. Or the fact no one follow some nobody lord who betrays their kin at first opportunity.

Stannis wasn't the eldest Baratheon.

he ordered it because in his sick mind Robert was a threat to his reign (which he was) but if you come professing your loyalty like tywin did i doubt he would bat an eye (mad king was very arbitrary, and not a good politician.)

see renly to that last one. and unlike renly he had a reason as it would be loyalty either way. (to king or blood) well which side won of course (probably would not be Robert with those extra 40,000 men.)