Stannis getting Dragonstone: Insult or honour?

[Minsc]

he ordered it because in his sick mind Robert was a threat to his reign (which he was) but if you come professing your loyalty like tywin did i doubt he would bat an eye (mad king was very arbitrary, and not a good politician.)

see renly to that last one. and unlike renly he had a reason as it would be loyalty either way. (to king or blood) well which side won of course (probably would not be Robert with those extra 40,000 men.)

He likely wouldn't trust Stannis either.

Renly had been their lord for 14 years thus they were more used to him. Furthermore, Renly probably informed them of the threat that Joffrey posed against him thus they didn't care about him betraying the boy king.

[The silver dragon]

He likely wouldn't trust Stannis either.

Renly had been their lord for 14 years thus they were more used to him. Furthermore, Renly probably informed them of the threat that Joffrey posed against him thus they didn't care about him betraying the boy king.

he did trust tywin though when all sense told him not to.

by threat you mean none at all if renly stepped down, and fell back in line?

[Minsc]

he did trust tywin though when all sense told him not to.

by threat you mean none at all if renly stepped down, and fell back in line?

Tywin's brother wasn't the lead rebel, and he thought holding Tywin's son hostage was enough.

Hardly, both Cersei and Joffrey hold grudges against him and both are mad.

[The silver dragon]

Tywin's brother wasn't the lead rebel, and he thought holding Tywin's son hostage was enough.

Hardly, both Cersei and Joffrey hold grudges against him and both are mad.

why do they hold Grudges?

because he crowned himself king.

same reason why stannis had a major grudge against him.

[Minsc]

why do they hold Grudges?

because he crowned himself king.

same reason why stannis had a major grudge against him.

Because he was plotting to replace Cersei with Margaery, while Joff is just insane.

[Trigger Warning]

why do they hold Grudges?

because he crowned himself king.

same reason why stannis had a major grudge against him.

Joffrey isn't a fan of Renly and he holds Storm's End, if for some reason Renly dies or has an act of attainder passed against him then the royal family will get Storm's End. Not to mention the threat legitimate Baratheons pose to Cersei's bastard children and Tywin talks about "dealing" with Stannis before he even declares himself king. Stannis and Renly were obviously not secure post Bob's death.

Renly tries twice to remove Lannister influence at court before he is crowned in Highgarden, he plotted to replace Cersei with Maergary and he put forward a plan to seize the king and secure Ned's place as regent. Clearly he fears the Lannisters since crowning himself is his last ditch effort to resist them when Robert is dead and the Lannisters are firmly in control of the Iron Throne.

[Tynned Lannistark]

We need to remember what Robert is like.

If it was Ned, I could have believed he did it to honor Stannis. Robert doesn't care about stuff like that.

If it was Tywin, I could have believed he did it because he wanted him to successfully rule Dragnostone and protect the Barahtehon rule against any Targ resistance. Robert is not that smart.

If it was Stannis himself I could have believed he did it as a reward for loyalty.

If it was LF I could have believed he did it to make Stannis and Renly fight, to weaken them and make sure non of them is a threat to himself or his kids.

But this is not Robert. Robert is a prick. He is also not very smart , hates planning and he is not crazy about Stannis.

He probably did it because he thought it was funny.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

When you have a sensitive brother, you have to walk with care around them. I know, I have a very oversensitive relative. Everything is an insult to her.

We have to understand that is not just an action that Stannis was meant to perceive. It was something that it was going to be perceived by everybody else. Robert gave the Baratheons' ancestral seat to a baby brother, when Stannis was rewarded with the traditional seat of the heir Robert just killed. For those who say that "it meant he considered his heir"*, it's not completely true. Dragonstone was given to the crown prince, the one who was definitely going to inherit. Stannis was never going to be Robert's heir because Robert was meant to have children. It would be like Rhaegar being King and giving DS to Viserys, until Aegon was being born. What was he meant to do, make Viserys to move?

Also, Dragonstone was a symbol of the Targaryens. And Robert hated them. IT was definitely a snub after Stannis "left" the Targ kids to escape.

(*yeah, I know GRRM said so, but it's like the case of Victarion. His actions don't fit that much with him being called dumb)

[Fat Mac]

What about Jon, Ned or Hoster, none of which got anything and did much more for Robert's cause than Stannis, Robert had every right to keep both SE and Dragonstone for himself and later give them to his sons when they come of age,

Lets not understate Stannis' importance to the Rebellion. Take a look at Robb's cause once Winterfell was taken.

As to the OP. Stannis receiving Dragonstone was an honor. Renly receiving Storm's End was an insult.

[Lee-Sensei]

We need to remember what Robert is like.

If it was Ned, I could have believed he did it to honor Stannis. Robert doesn't care about stuff like that.

If it was Tywin, I could have believed he did it because he wanted him to successfully rule Dragnostone and protect the Barahtehon rule against any Targ resistance. Robert is not that smart.

If it was Stannis himself I could have believed he did it as a reward for loyalty.

If it was LF I could have believed he did it to make Stannis and Renly fight, to weaken them and make sure non of them is a threat to himself or his kids.

But this is not Robert. Robert is a prick. He is also not very smart , hates planning and he is not crazy about Stannis.

He probably did it because he thought it was funny.

You clearly don't know Robert was... or are willfully ignoring things about him. Robert is described many times s being generous and forgiving and is at the very least smart enough to know that you need a strong lord controlling an area full of targ loyalists.

[Maid So Fair]

I don't think it was either. It's not in Robert's nature to think in those terms as he's not particularly sensitive or thoughtful. He seems like the kind of guy that would tell you to your face what he thinks, especially at the beginning of his reign. I can't see him going around trying to be careful not to step on anybody's toes. I think for him it was a matter of a job needing to be done that he couldn't/wouldn't do himself and in his position he had few people who he could consider trustworthy at that point. It's the same reason he made Ned the Hand - not because he wanted to honour him, but because it saved him the hassle of taking care of it himself. Someone needed to rule Dragonstone so why not his own brother, who already held one castle for him? He might have well thought/planned to keep SE for himself at that point (and thought he was being generous to Stannis by giving him his own seat) and only later gave it to Renly because of his magnanimous nature/because he felt Renly should get something too.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

Let me see. People, who greatly improved their station as a direct consequence of Robert's Rebellion, could be easily counted on fingers of a single hand. No more than five, just to avoid any unclarity. Robert, of course, got the chair. Cersei got to title herself queen. Stannis and Renly, two younger brothers in line to inherit rat's ass, got mighty castles, lands and lordly titles in heredity. And that's the entire first league. Sure, there was most likely shitload of knighthoods granted for this or that, maybe a small piece of land, some offices (Hand for Jon Arryn, LC for Selmy, that kind of thing), but the four biggest winners were Bob, Cersei, Renly and Stannis.

Seriously, I cannot find it in myself to feel sorry for the guy. It's like feeling sorry for a fella who placed fourth in the World Series of Poker. Dude, thousands of people got squat, hundreds of people got paid way less than you, only three fared better and you made a great big huge pile of money. Cry me a river.

[Winterfell is Burning]

Robert was EXTREMELY generous to both Baratheon brothers truth is Stannis is a second son and would have received NO lands and NO castle, but Bobby B loved his brothers at this time and gave SE to Renly because he was the only Baratheon left after Stannis received DS. Stannis should feel blessed he received such a powerful castle and lands, hes acting like a child on christmas Who received less présents then another child.

This is silly- Stannis wasn't being rewarded out of the goodness of Bob's heart, but because he was a key ally in his victory and deserved something. If the man that held Robert's castle for a year starving himself to death gets NOTHING, what message does it send to Robert's allies? What's the point of fighting for him if you will get nothing in return?

What about Jon, Ned or Hoster, none of which got anything and did much more for Robert's cause than Stannis, Robert had every right to keep both SE and Dragonstone for himself and later give them to his sons when they come of age,

Hoster got two marriages. Maybe he was on the Small Council for a while or appointed someone, who knows? We don't know who was Master of Coin or of Laws in the early stages of Robert's rule.

Arryn became Hand.

Ned would have his sister to be Queen had she lived.

[Lee-Sensei]

What did kevan get for serving Tywin loyally for decades? What did brynden get from hoster? What did Oberyn get from doran? As a second son, stannis' rightful place is as a sworn sword in service to Robert. Robert isn't expected to give stannis anything. Serving Robert is stannis' duty.

[GallowsKnight]

hes acting like a child on christmas Who received less présents then another child.

That simile only works if the kid in question had saved christmas while the other had done nothing.

I say this often but if wasn't for Stannis' competence and loyalty, it's very likely a targ would sit the throne. So yeah he deserved Storm's end if it is being given away.

[Panos Targaryen]

What did kevan get for serving Tywin loyally for decades? What did brynden get from hoster? What did Oberyn get from doran? As a second son, stannis' rightful place is as a sworn sword in service to Robert. Robert isn't expected to give stannis anything. Serving Robert is stannis' duty.

Well, Brynden was offered a marriage, and presumably a lordship to go with it, but he refused. As for the bolded part, it just goes to show you that even Stannis himself can't believe his "lawful unbending dutiful blablabla" rhetoric all of the time, and that he's much more "human" and vulnerable than he really let's on.

[The silver dragon]

What did kevan get for serving Tywin loyally for decades? What did brynden get from hoster? What did Oberyn get from doran? As a second son, stannis' rightful place is as a sworn sword in service to Robert. Robert isn't expected to give stannis anything. Serving Robert is stannis' duty.

it wasn't when Robert turned rebel.

and yet he still starved for him.

[FittleLinger]

Thing is, Dragonstone is the seat of the heir/crown prince - thus in Robert's mind he is acknowledging Stannis as his heir until Robert has hiw own son. I'm absolutely certain Robert did not mean it as an offense, but lawful Stannis took it that way. To be honest, by giving him DS Robert declares Stannis king if something happens or if Robert doesn't have a boy, which is kind of a big deal. What Robert should've done, in case he already gave Renly SE:

Keep Stanis as the ruler of Dragonstone until Joff is born

Once Joff is born - switch Stannis and Renly, so Stannis is the lord of SE, and Renly becomes the official Castellan (or similar) of DS untill Joff comes of age

Once Joff comes of age - find a suitable position in cour for Renly, or a smaller castle/holdfast

Everyone happy.

[Gibzit]

Thing is, Dragonstone is the seat of the heir/crown prince - thus in Robert's mind he is acknowledging Stannis as his heir until Robert has hiw own son. I'm absolutely certain Robert did not mean it as an offense, but lawful Stannis took it that way. To be honest, by giving him DS Robert declares Stannis king if something happens or if Robert doesn't have a boy, which is kind of a big deal. What Robert should've done, in case he already gave Renly SE:

Keep Stanis as the ruler of Dragonstone until Joff is born

Once Joff is born - switch Stannis and Renly, so Stannis is the lord of SE, and Renly becomes the official Castellan (or similar) of DS untill Joff comes of age

Once Joff comes of age - find a suitable position in cour for Renly, or a smaller castle/holdfast

Everyone happy.

Except Tommen, which did not recieve Storm's End even though he had as much right to it as Stannis.

[FittleLinger]

Except Tommen, which did not recieve Storm's End even though he had as much right to it as Stannis.

Tommen wouldn't be born by then. And also, it's more complicated because Tommen is of House Baratheon of Kings Landing. By the same logic, Robert should just keep Storms end for himself - but he doesn't - as his seat is now King's landing.