The Riverlands Web V.5

[LongRider]

1st Bold.] Good point. And we know Greenbeard was seen to be a leader of some sorts within the BWB, and Anguy is important. Who knows ? :dunno: But I like this idea.

2nd Bold.] Yeah, I agree, it seems to have gotten a lot darker with LSH's gang, and a lot of her drive is vengeance, that is undeniable. But those scraps of evidence showing cohesion working with the BWB/spies, the foray into the Neck and her thoughtful gaze over Robb's crown, have got me thinking there is more to LSH than we think ? Maybe not. :dunno:

You definitely could be right I think. I'm biased as I don't like the LSH arc, so it's good to toss around the thoughts that's there's more to her than vengeance.

[Le Cygne]

Also, what are your guys thoughts on the BWB being two factions ? It could go some way to explaining the seemingly multiple tasks they are taking on. The people that left after LSH we have discussed, with not much to go on. But in AFFC appendix, there are these missing people listed, and it seems they are separated from LSH gang and listed under Beric's name. They are.....

Edric Dayne -- The Mad Huntsman -- Greenbeard -- Anguy -- Merrit 'o' Moontown -- Watty the Miller -- Swampy Meg and also Jon 'o' Nutten.

Could they literally still be Beric's men ? And a second faction of the BWB ? I've seen this mentioned a lot in other threads, and could fit ? :dunno:

Swampy Meg! :lol: Jon of Nothing. They and Merrit o'Moontown and Watty the Miller were listed together, seemingly minor players.

Edric Danyne: "When I wear my helm, the rain beats against the steel and gives me headaches," he complained. "But when I take it off, my hair gets soaked and sticks to my face and in my mouth." He's not a fighter, Gendry and Arya both picked that up, maybe after this he'll stay out of the rain.

Beric sent Greenbeard and the Mad Huntsman off. He had given the Hound’s gold to Greenbeard and the Huntsman to buy provisions south of the Mander, she knew. The Mad Huntsman caged up the northmen who were dying of thirst. But Anguy didn't seem bad. Arya even called him stupid, that's a good sign.

Gendry and Harwin helped Arya up when she gave the men in the cages water (one licked water off the bars), and Anguy gave them mercy (with arrows). That's described like when Arya gave the dying man water (an archer, he licked water off the helm), and Sandor gave him mercy (with a dagger).

One more thing that sort of stood out, the ladies like Anguy, maybe that will play into things...

[Bironic]

Wouldn't it be Edric Dayne's "job" to report the last and final death of Beric Dondarrion to his aunt Allyria Dayne(Beric's betrothed) in Blackhaven. Anguy could be with him, since he's from the marches.

[Maid So Fair]

I don't want to derail the thread and I apologise if this is not how this works, but have you guys discussed what's likely to happen during the TWOW prologue chapter? AFAIK we've been told that Jeyne is going to be involved, which most likely means also Edmure and some sort of a rescue attempt is a reasonable conclusion but by whom? Blackfish? BWB? BF AND BWB? If so, which, if any, of the named characters will bite the dust? Given the tight timescales, has this been arranged beforehand? It seems that at least BF and Edmure still have a role to play, so I'd say either Jeyne or one of the BWB members gets the prologue chapter POV.

[LongRider]

Wouldn't it be Edric Dayne's "job" to report the last and final death of Beric Dondarrion to his aunt Allyria Dayne(Beric's betrothed) in Blackhaven. Anguy could be with him, since he's from the marches.

That could be a possibility, we don't yet.

[Wizz-The-Smith]

Wouldn't it be Edric Dayne's "job" to report the last and final death of Beric Dondarrion to his aunt Allyria Dayne(Beric's betrothed) in Blackhaven. Anguy could be with him, since he's from the marches.

Yeah, when I mention the second group of BWB, I don't necessarily think they are all together, but certainly some of Beric's men, as possibly listed in the AFFC appendix, could be elsewhere, with possible BWB intentions.

I actually agree that Edric may have headed home, Greenbeard and the Mad Huntsman were down that way as well. It's so hard to tell what may happen, but I like the idea of the second BWB faction including some of these missing people, and maybe the BF. :dunno:

[Wizz-The-Smith]

I don't want to derail the thread and I apologise if this is not how this works, but have you guys discussed what's likely to happen during the TWOW prologue chapter? AFAIK we've been told that Jeyne is going to be involved, which most likely means also Edmure and some sort of a rescue attempt is a reasonable conclusion but by whom? Blackfish? BWB? BF AND BWB? If so, which, if any, of the named characters will bite the dust? Given the tight timescales, has this been arranged beforehand? It seems that at least BF and Edmure still have a role to play, so I'd say either Jeyne or one of the BWB members gets the prologue chapter POV.

We have indeed discussed the TWOW prologue, although not what I would call really thoroughly. [ I can't recall what V. thread it was.] It was soon after the announcement IIRC, and we were possibly worried by spoilers. Still some good and interesting points made though. And also, I agree with everything you've said, the only thing I would add, is I'm definitely in the camp that think it will be BWB 'and' the BF involved. I don't see a better time for the BF to be reintegrated into the story, upholding his role given to him by Robb as Warden of the Southern Marches, plus keeping his promise to Robb to protect, and keep his wife Jeyne safe. And of course Edmure ! Family-Duty-Honour ! :)

EDIT : Sweet new avatar Maid So Fair !

[Wizz-The-Smith]

1.] Swampy Meg! :lol: Jon of Nothing. They and Merrit o'Moontown and Watty the Miller were listed together, seemingly minor players.

2.] Edric Danyne: "When I wear my helm, the rain beats against the steel and gives me headaches," he complained. "But when I take it off, my hair gets soaked and sticks to my face and in my mouth." He's not a fighter, Gendry and Arya both picked that up, maybe after this he'll stay out of the rain.

3.] Beric sent Greenbeard and the Mad Huntsman off. He had given the Hound’s gold to Greenbeard and the Huntsman to buy provisions south of the Mander, she knew. The Mad Huntsman caged up the northmen who were dying of thirst. But Anguy didn't seem bad. Arya even called him stupid, that's a good sign.

1.] Ha ! I agree that there's a couple of the funny names of the series. However, they are 'named' men/women in the BWB, and we haven't seen them for a while, plus they are listed as possibly Beric's men. So perhaps worth keeping an eye on ?

2.] I agree he's not a fighter, or so it seems. As I mentioned before, I like the idea he is headed for home. Where this might lead is hard to gauge, and who he may be with, or at least parlay with, is anyone's guess ? :dunno:

3.] Indeed, we know Greenbeard and the Mad Huntsman went south of the Mander, but that could lead to a couple of options at least. If Edric is heading home, that would be in the direction that GB + TMH took. Edric and co. knew of their destination, and perhaps the position of the odd stronghold with BWB support along the way ?

The other thing is, some time has passed, and could GB + TMH have returned to the RL's, and taken up the cause again ? I don't see any reason why they wouldn't have. And if that's the case, who are they with, the BF ? Maybe not, but still, this has got me thinking as to whether these guys could yet get involved in the RL's plotting and scheming ? :)

[Le Cygne]

Maybe not, but still, this has got me thinking as to whether these guys could yet get involved in the RL's plotting and scheming ? :)

It was a good idea, I was looking for clues. :)

Also, just for the heck of it, making a note that Beric sent the Mad Huntsman (Beric's "sometime ally") and Greenbeard (his "uncertain friend" and a "sellsword") off with Sandor's gold. Could they be trusted? Sandor told the ferryman he'd be back for that note - after giving him a tip!

[LongRider]

It was when Edmure was leaving that Jamie told/was told that Ed would be surrounded by archers who would feather him with arrows at a moments notice is the group was attacked. Because of this I hope that either Anguy is traveling with them as a spy, or is gathering his own archers for an attack. This is assuming that he was either in with the siege troops or Tom007 communicated to him what happened at RR.

All of this is pure speculation tho. But if the BWB do know of the plan of Edmure surrounded by archers, it would I think, be a good bit of intelligence to know. :dunno:

[LongRider]

We have indeed discussed the TWOW prologue, although not what I would call really thoroughly. [ I can't recall what V. thread it was.] It was soon after the announcement IIRC, and we were possibly worried by spoilers. Still some good and interesting points made though. And also, I agree with everything you've said, the only thing I would add, is I'm definitely in the camp that think it will be BWB 'and' the BF involved. I don't see a better time for the BF to be reintegrated into the story, upholding his role given to him by Robb as Warden of the Southern Marches, plus keeping his promise to Robb to protect, and keep his wife Jeyne safe. And of course Edmure ! Family-Duty-Honour ! :)

EDIT : Sweet new avatar Maid So Fair !

I thought we did discuss it, but don't remember it much.

[Booknerd2]

Just in general:

I will give Edric a bit more credit, in the vein of Pod, that when Beric was down he did shield him. That was brave. So I think if he had to defend himself he could. That's about it…for that one thing. I can't think of anything else ballsy, but leaving a touchy LS and some of her rabid people does get some props too. And taking men with him. Still don't understand that they just let him go. I think there is more to it. Either they would be pissed they are losing strength in numbers or I would be concerned that they would give away their whereabouts; if anything, if I am playing Armchair Tywin and I was LS or Lem or someone that stayed, I may be a bit concerned.

The Edric hair comment is, of course, hilarious because Gendry is SO annoyed, and pretty much tells him to shut up and bloody cut it all off if it is a problem. So funny! But then I thought of this. Maybe it is making a bit of a statement.

For me, even though he was nice and sort of hit it off with Arya, Gendry's first impression assure me that Edric and Arya were never going anywhere on a first read, and that is clear too at the end of their discussion when Arya gets annoyed with him too.

Hair is brought up with Arya and Gendry, and they always to their core have a different response than Edric. It is not shallow, it is symbolic. Small, but nice little nuggets.

Arya doesn't give a crap about her hair. She'd never make a comment like that. Just a statement about her nature. Gendry is sometimes described as absent-mindedly pushing (how is it worded, I'd have to check) his thick black hair out of his face/eyes. So in comparison with Edric, he's a brush it off his shoulder, don't make a fuss, just get on with it type of person.

Though Gendry does get more touchy after Acorn Hall…and we already discussed what THAT's about...

Oh, and those PQ's are coming. I will do a big Jeyne Westerling write up, but I think Sybell should be first and I am working on it.

I have the title already…lol!

"Sybell Spicer is in deep shit."

Can't think of a better one. It fits; it is so true.

[Le Cygne]

I think Pod wants to be a warrior. He wants Ser My Lady to teach him things. He's brave in a different way than Edric. I'll give Edric credit for doing his duty, but I don't think he's cut out for it. Lord of the manor, perhaps, but not a warrior.

(I seem to be reacting to Edric the same way Gendry did... hmmm.... :lol:)

[LongRider]

Snipped all over:

He wants Ser My Lady to teach him things.... :leer: .... :lol:)

[Booknerd2]

I think Pod wants to be a warrior. He wants Ser My Lady to teach him things. He's brave in a different way than Edric. I'll give Edric credit for doing his duty, but I don't think he's cut out for it. Lord of the manor, perhaps, but not a warrior.

(I seem to be reacting to Edric the same way Gendry did... hmmm.... :lol:)

Totally true and off the cuff and so funny….I noted too that when Edric comes up sometimes it seems you don't think much of him. Just over time with posts.

I swear, sometimes it cracks me up because it is so honest and it sounds like if someone asked the Gendry character for Edric analysis/opinions, it would be what he would say too.

It is honest and great and I love it! I think even sometimes I want to say something differently, but I almost noticed that I really want to give Edric a shake because I am so Pro-Gendry, that I don't want to seem so biased so I try to even be more generous than I should be. Like I noted without noticing for some time that I have reined myself in.

All I can say is I never thought, ever….saw…any evidence for shipping Edric with Arya, let alone Sansa, as I have seen thrown out there.

I don't like Edric's blabby tendencies. I even posted awhile ago. Even Ned Stark may tip his hat knowing Wylla is still perpetuating the Jon stuff, but knowing Ned, he'd probably wish she just said nothing at all to begin with.

Which still makes me think that maybe I will give benefit of the doubt to Wylla for a bit longer and assume that people were still talking and she took a proactive approach with Edric Dayne. Allyria maybe too, but she is still up in the air. We don't know how old she was when all that went down, but I assume she was living but pretty young.

And totally fine if people do. That's their opinion, don't want to step on anyone's clouds, but I seriously never saw it.

Good kid. But touches of milquetoast. Now if the bravery he showed as Beric's squire and the ballsiness of leaving LS and BWB pay off down the road, I will totally give it up to him.

[Le Cygne]

Totally true and off the cuff and so funny….I noted too that when Edric comes up sometimes it seems you don't think much of him. Just over time with posts.

I am Team Gendry, and I blame you. :lol:

This is too cute (as in, really cute):

"What kind of lady throws crabapples at people?"

"The bad kind," said Arya, suddenly contrite.

[Booknerd2]

I am Team Gendry, and I blame you. :lol:

This is too cute:

"What kind of lady throws crabapples at people?"

"The bad kind," said Arya, suddenly contrite.

I was thinking too that when a character is introduced, Edric had like the worst opener in general...

Complaining about hair, rain, and how the hair sticks and gets in his mouth or whatever…just not a good first impression and he came off compared to everyone else, really every other squire or knight we know, as a whiner. It is almost like, you keep it to yourself, you just don't do it…tough it out.

Ironically, Gendry seemed to have more patience with Hot Pie and Lommy compared to Edric and it is sort of telling. And seriously, they whined and nagged more. I mean, I love Hot Pie, but him and Lommy were at times huge pains in the ass. They did give Gendry and Arya a hard time, but the only time Gendry complained was the day he pulled her to the side alone to vent…and then told her he knew she was a girl.

He has NO PATIENCE for Edric. LOL! Really funny.

And the crabapple and the kick to the side is the best. Too funny. And I love that she kicks him in the side, but later in the same chapter it is NOT OK with her, when he gets captured and she sees someone else do it to him. She gets pissed and wants to save him.

You know, only SHE gets to kick him when he's out of line or making fun of her. LOL!

[Le Cygne]

And the crabapple and the kick to the side is the best. Too funny. And I love that she kicks him in the side, but later in the same chapter it is NOT OK with her, when he gets captured and she sees someone else do it to him. She gets pissed and wants to save him.

You know, only SHE gets to kick him when he's out of line or making fun of her. LOL!

That one is good, too. You know she likes you when she wants to hit you. :lol:

[Maid So Fair]

We have indeed discussed the TWOW prologue, although not what I would call really thoroughly. [ I can't recall what V. thread it was.] It was soon after the announcement IIRC, and we were possibly worried by spoilers. Still some good and interesting points made though. And also, I agree with everything you've said, the only thing I would add, is I'm definitely in the camp that think it will be BWB 'and' the BF involved. I don't see a better time for the BF to be reintegrated into the story, upholding his role given to him by Robb as Warden of the Southern Marches, plus keeping his promise to Robb to protect, and keep his wife Jeyne safe. And of course Edmure ! Family-Duty-Honour ! :)

EDIT : Sweet new avatar Maid So Fair !

Cool, I'll try to look at earlier threads :)

I wasn't too put off by Edric's whining, I thought it was cute. I think it's a great contrast to Arya, who is younger but has been through so much more and even Gendry. His battle experience seems pretty limited and while he did his duty it's not like anyone challenged him or tried to kill him during the battle so he's not really been in a true life and death situation IMHO. I wouldn't write him off just yet, it's clear he's still a kid. But I like him for giving Arya a link to her old life. I think our Lord of Starfall might become quite important yet even if I doubt he will be a great warrior. I can't see him with Arya at all, however, not only because of Gendry/Arya but also because of the fact that he's got years of growing up to do just to catch up with her. Sansa is in a similar situation and by the time they meet she might not be too inclined to take him seriously even if he's just the guy that would suit pre-KL Sansa.

Wizz: Thank you, good ser.

[Wizz-The-Smith]

Cool, I'll try to look at earlier threads :)

I wasn't too put off by Edric's whining, I thought it was cute. I think it's a great contrast to Arya, who is younger but has been through so much more and even Gendry. His battle experience seems pretty limited and while he did his duty it's not like anyone challenged him or tried to kill him during the battle so he's not really been in a true life and death situation IMHO. I wouldn't write him off just yet, it's clear he's still a kid. But I like him for giving Arya a link to her old life. I think our Lord of Starfall might become quite important yet even if I doubt he will be a great warrior. I can't see him with Arya at all, however, not only because of Gendry/Arya but also because of the fact that he's got years of growing up to do just to catch up with her. Sansa is in a similar situation and by the time they meet she might not be too inclined to take him seriously even if he's just the guy that would suit pre-KL Sansa.

Wizz: Thank you, good ser.

No problem. To be honest, I had a quick look, and there weren't many posts, there are a couple but it being discussed in the future was certainly suggested. Maybe I was mixing another thread, but some of your thoughts on the matter are about as far as we've got I think. As I mentioned before, I agree with your assessment, and I like LongRider's idea of Anguy being involved.

There are quite a few options, but I hope we get a pay off in the form of some BWB involvement, and BF would great ! :)