Charlie Hebdo under terrorist attack

[Suttree]

As part of 1.2 billion 60 million is not many, especially when you consider that 60 million is spread across the planet.

Indeed. Additionally it looks like he ignored the politifact linked up thread.

The veil is slipping a bit with that one.

[Ulthosian Stark]

Ugh. Firstly, people need to stop generalizing Islam. Sunni, Shiite, Sufi, etc can be very different along with their definition of Sharia. Its like saying Evangelists and Lutherans are the same. I was raised Lutheran and I'd be pissed if someone blanket-defined me to include Evangelists.

This is part of why the amount of radicalized Muslims is rising. When your talking about Al Qaeda or ISIS or many of the radical groups, your talking about Sunni extremism. When peaceful Sunnis, and other sects see people demonizing Islam based on the actions of Sunni terrorists they get pissed. If repeatedly hammered with this, you can see how they could get radicalized themselves when they would have lived a quiet, peaceful life otherwise.

I'm not an apologist though, satires are satires. If they piss you off a bit, well, most of them will piss somebody off, deal with it, but don't go shoot em up.

Shit gets real when religion gets involved. If your ready to mock a religion when its people are being radicalized, you better be ready for severe blowback as well. I really can't imagine more severe then what happened with the cartoonists, nor do I want to imagine it, but they took a gamble and lost it all.

Not saying cartoonists/reporters/journalists should censor what they put out, but if you put something out, you need to be ready for the consequences.

[trickster]

Read above- I clarified a bit. And 60 Million is "many." Your attempt to rationalize the threat is... cute.

Wait, are you counting children as well? Also even if you can find 60 million (about 1% of the earth's population) adults who think the cartoonist should have been severely censured, you may be hard pressed to find that many who would support cold blooded murder.

[Rockroi]

Wait, are you counting children as well? Also even if you can find 60 million (about 1% of the earth's population) adults who think the cartoonist should have been severely censured, you may be hard pressed to find that many who would support cold blooded murder.

I have no idea how many Muslims support violence to protect their views. But I can assure you its not a tiny fraction of a fraction - its certainly more than the three we saw today. It really could be something like millions of people.

Indeed. Additionally it looks like he ignored the politifact linked up thread.

The veil is slipping a bit with that one.

Oh, no, actually. I actually differentiated my stats; unlike your link I was very specific: I made explicit mention of the fact that while many Muslims want Sharia Law, only in 4 nations do the majority of Muslims want the law for everyone, including non Muslims. I then listed those countries and then listed the nations where the number was between 1/3 and 1/2. I was very explicit.

You can say the viel is slipping or use whatever jokes you want, but I was actually saying the same exact thing that Poltifact poll you linked said.

I just think that its actually alarming that so many Muslims want me to live under a religious law I have nothing to do with, while many think its perfectly fine that "ONLY" 1/3 of all Muslims surveyed want me to live under Islamic law... and I'm not Muslim.

But, hey, YMMV.

[Suttree]

Your attempt to rationalize the threat is... cute.

Lol. Wut? Where exactly do you live if I may ask? Because if it's in the US or Europe the "threat" from religious fundamentalists is well below minimal.

[Rockroi]

To trickster and Suttree:

Look, we can argue this issue all day, but I do think its far afield and not really 100% germane to this debate. I think the # of radicalized and severely conservative Muslims is higher than you do; we both can quote stats and set up links etc and then say snide things about one another. I don;t think that gets us very far.

I know its trite, but at the risk of sounding condescending, neither of you nor I believe its permissible to kill people in order to protect our views. And that people should act accordingly.

[Werthead]

Not saying cartoonists/reporters/journalists should censor what they put out, but if you put something out, you need to be ready for the consequences.

You should be ready for proportionate and measured consequences. If you exercise your right of free speech to say or do something someone or a group finds offensive, that person or group has the right and freedom to come back at you through the same channels or other appropriate ones (including the right to try to shut you up through legal means, if you have indeed broken the law). Not the right to escalate things and come and shoot up your office.

[trickster]

To trickster and Suttree:

Look, we can argue this issue all day, but I do think its far afield and not really 100% germane to this debate. I think the # of radicalized and severely conservative Muslims is higher than you do; we both can quote stats and set up links etc and then say snide things about one another. I don;t think that gets us very far.

I know its trite, but at the risk of sounding condescending, neither of you nor I believe its permissible to kill people in order to protect our views. And that people should act accordingly.

:cheers:

[Dicer]

I feel sorry for the millions of moderate muslims. Every time something like this happens, they must be seriously face palming. Makes life harder for them, increases Islamophobia and puts them on the spotlight again and again. It's always embarrassing/frightening when extremists belonging to one's religion say something stupid or do something terrifying/bad.

I suspect this act will continue to inspire the kind of Islamophobia that is currently being seen in Germany with the huge rallies against muslims.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Dicer,

And rallies against Islam and Muslims misses the point. The problem is radicals and radicalization not the faith generally.

[Rockroi]

Dicer,

And rallies against Islam and Muslims misses the point. The problem is radicals and radicalization not the faith generally.

You are making very hard for me to keep my promise, you know that, right?

[Kraan]

That would be foolish. Why put your life at risk while the threat still exists?

The threat will always exist. It's your choice between freedom of speech and cowering for extremism.

[Rockroi]

And then this:

http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/07/ahmed-merabet-cop-killed-in-paris-attacks-was-muslim/

The slain police officer was Muslim.

[theprincethatwasntpromised]

I feel sorry for the millions of moderate muslims. Every time something like this happens, they must be seriously face palming. Makes life harder for them, increases Islamophobia and puts them on the spotlight again and again. It's always embarrassing/frightening when extremists belonging to one's religion say something stupid or do something terrifying/bad.

I suspect this act will continue to inspire the kind of Islamophobia that is currently being seen in Germany with the huge rallies against muslims.

Then maybe they should weed these radicals out instead of leaving it to the first world nations.

[Rockroi]

Then maybe they should weed these radicals out instead of leaving it to the first world nations.

Yep.

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

You mean the first world nations that so many of these moderate Muslims are also members of?

Just out of curiosity, what the fuck does "weeding out radicals" actually translate to into non-euphemism speak?

[TrueMetis]

Then maybe they should weed these radicals out instead of leaving it to the first world nations.

A proposition that would be easier had first world nations not supported radical Muslims both in the past and currently. Maybe just maybe as a fairly big reason these guys have the power they do first world nations should be expected to be part of the solution.

[Dicer]

Then maybe they should weed these radicals out instead of leaving it to the first world nations.

You think they are not being affected by these Islamic fundamentalists? They are. More than first world nations. Life in the middle east is hell for a lot of muslims because of religious fundamentalism. They are just helpless to do anything about it.

And the problem is exacerbated by the foreign policies of many first world nations. Invading muslim countries and supporting dictators and oppressive regimes tend to lend credence to these extremists and raises support for their cause. Young men run off to join ISIS because they are disillusioned by what is happening to them or around them. They then get further radicalized by terror outfits.

At the same time, I do think Muslims need to learn to assimilate better into other secular cultures and adapt to changing times and conditions. A failure to do this isolates them (IMO) in countries with non-muslim majorities and that puts them at a disadvantage in terms of jobs, education, finances etc. Which leads to increasing poverty and ghettoization and the youth being attracted to radical fundamantalism.

When in Rome and all that. Having lived along side moderate muslims, I do think they tend to be more rigid in following their faith. I have known well educated, very nice moderate muslim families continue to have 4-5 kids despite there being a population crisis in my country. I am annoyed by the mosque near my home making the call for prayers at 5.00 A.M in the morning through loud speakers and waking me up. I am annoyed by girls being forced to marry at 15 because their law permits this.

And this holds true for people of all religions. The increasing lack of separation of church and state in the United States is infringing on women's rights. Extremist Hindus (With the support of the right wing Hindu government) in India are increasing communal tension and making life harder for minorities. There are now even extremist Buddhists! (Supposedly one of the most peaceful religions in the world) attacking muslims in Burma and Sri Lanka.

Religion as a whole is a bane to humanity.

Islam must be mocked as the superstitious drivel that it is - along with every other religion.

I tend to agree with this. ALL religions must be mocked as superstitious drivel that makes people do horrible things to others.

My sympathies for all those affected by this horrid tragedy.

[Gears of the Beast]

Bill Donohue of the Catholic League - MUSLIMS ARE RIGHT TO BE ANGRY

What unites Muslims in their anger against Charlie Hebdo is the vulgar manner in which Muhammad has been portrayed. What they object to is being intentionally insulted over the course of many years. On this aspect, I am in total agreement with them.

Stephane Charbonnier, the paper’s publisher, was killed today in the slaughter. It is too bad that he didn’t understand the role he played in his tragic death. In 2012, when asked why he insults Muslims, he said, “Muhammad isn’t sacred to me.” Had he not been so narcissistic, he may still be alive. Muhammad isn’t sacred to me, either, but it would never occur to me to deliberately insult Muslims by trashing him.

Kind of disturbing that there's at least one quack in this thread with similar reasoning to that cretinous windbag.

[Shryke]

You mean the first world nations that so many of these moderate Muslims are also members of?

Just out of curiosity, what the fuck does "weeding out radicals" actually translate to into non-euphemism speak?

The suspects they are after right now, last I read anyway, were born in Paris.

Which makes the statements you are responding to here even less coherent.