Ser Creighton Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 ...by god, I think you're onto something here.IT'S A CONSPIRACY!Quick, someone call Dan Brown.My god Kit didn't escape, he is a lemon clone. Like invasion of the body snatchers but with lemons and now he is funding the Illemonati.Dan Brown is probably already here we just don't know it, or do we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 My god Kit didn't escape, he is a lemon clone. Like invasion of the body snatchers but with lemons and now he is funding the Illemonati.Dan Brown is probably already here we just don't know it, or do we? You're Dan Brown, aren't you?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FittleLinger Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Was the board under attack? I got a service error message. I was starting to get withdrawal symptoms. No - it was a varnish cache error - probably the system isn't set up to replace the cache files but creates new ones all the time, which eventually clog the /tmp folder. That or server issues, but I wouldn't say it was a brute force attack. Why would a forum use varnish anyway is beyond me #justwebhostingsupportthings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Leftwich Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I would find that extremely hypocritical for Martin to reveal it by using a dream, when he has said that the dreams in his story aren't to be taken literal. It would also be extremely hypocritical for this board not to accept parts of dreams from characters like Ned and Jaime as true (Lyanna screaming as Ned fights the KG possibly indicating she's giving birth then, Rhaegar saying he left his wife and children in Jaime's hands), but suddenly accept this one as being true. If it gets revealed, it's not coming from a dream. The vision depicts Rhaegar standing right after he's hit by Robert's hammer (as the rubies are flying), and then him falling to his knees. Robert and Rhaegar fought on horse back, so he was never standing when he got hit and never fell to his knees. Not only that, but if Robert hit him hard enough to cave in his chest with his abnormally large hammer as well as drive a spike through plate armour, there's no possible way that Rhaegar stayed standing from the blow. He'd have been knocked on his ass as there's simply too much force. And if he stayed standing, it's only possible from the spike through his heart, which isn't included in the vision despite Robert telling us that's how he killed him and the vision showcases right when he hit him. So the vision isn't real right off the bat off the fact that we know that Robert and Rhaegar fought on horseback, and that even if they hadn't, Rhaegar wouldn't have still been standing from a blow that had enough force behind it to cave in his chest and punch a spike through plate armour unless Robert was the one holding him up, yet the vision shows the hit but no spike through Rhaegar's heart.. Then you get into the fact that Robert drove the spike of his hammer through Rhaegar's heart. Rhaegar would have died instantly and wouldn't be able to murmur a name. And if he didn't, Robert's blow also caved in his chest. He wouldn't have lungs to murmur a name. The vision isn't possibly true. Interpreting visions and dreams as literal, who would do that? (This is why people get IGNORED.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Creighton Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 You're Dan Brown, aren't you?!Oh nuts, I thought you were. Maybe it's JCRB or BQ, JCRB sits on her hair may be Illemonati code for Kit is a Lemon Clone. After all JCRB brought up the hair and JCRB named the Illemonati and JCRB married Jon to Jon to create two Jon' or JonJon. OMG! OMG! I need to go into hiding like now. I wasn't here and didn't write this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 So, back onto serious (kind of) talk: I know we've talked a lot about stuff up to the big reveal, but what about after? Let's say Jon is the son of R+L and he's TPTWP...what is his first move? How does he use this to his advantage? How does he use this information to fight the Others? And...go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Leftwich Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 So, back onto serious (kind of) talk: I know we've talked a lot about stuff up to the big reveal, but what about after? Let's say Jon is the son of R+L and he's TPTWP...what is his first move? How does he use this to his advantage? How does he use this information to fight the Others? TPTWP doesn't seem like a title that one throws around, like say, "I am the Dragon (Reborn)." He will just keep on doing what he has been doing as LC of NW, convincing people to follow him, by hook or by crook, but not by religious/magical/prophetical fanaticism or titles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markg171 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Interpreting visions and dreams as literal, who would do that? (This is why people get IGNORED.) So exactly what conclusion are you supposed to draw from a vision that is completely wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 TPTWP doesn't seem like a title that one throws around, like say, "I am the Dragon (Reborn)." He will just keep on doing what he has been doing as LC of NW, convincing people to follow him, by hook or by crook, but not by religious/magical/prophetical fanaticism or titles. I agree that Jon would hate the idea of using titles like that. But there's a part in Melisandre's chapter that I think Jon needs to learn: Snow still chose to dwell behind the armory, in a pair of modest rooms previously occupied by the Watch’s late blacksmith. Perhaps he did not think himself worthy of the King’s Tower, or perhaps he did not care. That was his mistake, the false humility of youth that is itself a sort of pride. It was never wise for a ruler to eschew the trappings of power, for power itself flows in no small measure from such trappings. I think that Jon will learn that in order to get shit done, he's going to have to 'project' an image that he might dislike. Now, I don't think he will go around saying "I'm the Prince that was Promised, follow me!" But I think if people THOUGHT he was that Prince, he would go along with it if it helped him achieve his goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FittleLinger Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 So exactly what conclusion are you supposed to draw from a vision that is completely wrong? That's like saying that Dany diidn't see the red wedding in the HotU because in reality, Robb was not holding a lamb's leg as a scepter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Creighton Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 So, back onto serious (kind of) talk: I know we've talked a lot about stuff up to the big reveal, but what about after? Let's say Jon is the son of R+L and he's TPTWP...what is his first move? How does he use this to his advantage? How does he use this information to fight the Others? And...go!Well I think the Prince and Azor and Lightbrinnger stuff depends on Mel. She would be the only one to say anything to him about that. But just saying that does not help anyone. This also gives Mel one of the biggest I told you so moments when Jon wakes up.Tell me what do Azor, The Prince and Lightbringer all have in common? They all fight the Others, they are all allied to Fire. Azor has Lightbringer a flaming sword. The Prince has Dragons, and Lightbringer is of course a flaming sword. Now the world book will tell you that Azor didn't actually fix the problem. In fact he broke the world. My guess is this has to do with the arm of Dorne and man stayed seperate and flawed no new God Emperor was born to bring peace. Now of course none of that is going to change we will always be flawed and there is no one person who makes everything good.However a new leader after the Long Night could help the world recover some. So if it goes down like last time, nothing will really be fixed, bad seasons, man being man, the world in conflict. It has to be undone if you ask me. The problem itself really began with the Blood betrayal, and man started doing all kinds of bad shit. Some say his flaming sword helped save the world, but I think it was really the fact that he united people and gave them hope. Though it does not seem he survived because there is nothing said about that.I don't think it is enough to just fight and kill the Others, but perhaps a new pact of ice and fire. You can't destroy the cold or the night. Fire has ruled till the fall of the Targs and now comes Ice, if you are to find balance and the weather normal you will need both and they will need to get together in some way. Or both will be destroyed and Magic will die or something.Jon will need Dany and the Dragons. I know some think they will dance the dance of death and they may have conflict. But when a Dragon King and Dragon Queen fight the fire destroys itself and then you got nothing that can stop the Others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amoracchius Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Interpreting visions and dreams as literal, who would do that? (This is why people get IGNORED.) That's like saying that Dany diidn't saw the red wedding in the HotU because in reality, Robb was not holding a lamb's leg as a scepter. You guys just made my day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markg171 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 That's like saying that Dany diidn't saw the red wedding in the HotU because in reality, Robb was not holding a lamb's leg as a scepter. First off, the Red Wedding vision is from a completely different set of visions within the HOTU. These ones have nothing to do with the one of Rhaegar at the Trident. Secondly, there are parts of Red Wedding vision that are correct. Most of it is in fact. In the Trident vision, the only thing that actually happened is the rubies going flying. Everything else is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 <snip> I agree with quite a lot of this, actually. I don't think it's about 'fire' beating 'ice'...I think there has to be some sort of balance achieved. And I think balance is only achieved WITHOUT magic. I think magic throws everything out of balance, and gives a chosen few power over others. I think somehow, TPTWP/AAR is supposed to find a way to bring this balance back to the world- perhaps by ridding the world of all magic. Jon is different in that he has a balance of 'blood' that has never been seen in the world before...perhaps he will be the one to bring back balance to the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Do you think he blackmailed them threatening to cut his hair if he didn't get more money? Is he part of the Illemonati? No something is not right "hair", what if the Illemonati kidnapped Kit and threatened to cut his hair trying to force the show to make Dany from Dorne. Then they gave Kit a raise after he escaped to compensate for his pain and suffering. :lol: TPTWP doesn't seem like a title that one throws around, like say, "I am the Dragon (Reborn)." He will just keep on doing what he has been doing as LC of NW, convincing people to follow him, by hook or by crook, but not by religious/magical/prophetical fanaticism or titles. I agree that he probably won't start saying to people "I am the dragon" and such, but the discovery could give him a sense of fullfillment.. Is that the right word? A sense of belonging. First off, the Red Wedding vision is from a completely different set of visions within the HOTU. These ones have nothing to do with the one of Rhaegar at the Trident. Secondly, there are parts of Red Wedding vision that are correct. Most of it is in fact. In the Trident vision, the only thing that actually happened is the rubies going flying. Everything else is wrong. Because you know for a fact that, not only did the fight start with two men upon a horse, it also ended with two men upon a horse? Is it not possible that, at some point during their battle, one or both lost their horse, and continued the fight on foot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceFire125 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 For every song must have its balance. “But yes, my lord, him as well. We cannot pick and choose amongst the free folk, saying this one may pass, this one may not. Peace means peace for all.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markg171 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Because you know for a fact that, not only did the fight start with two men upon a horse, it also ended with two men upon a horse? Is it not possible that, at some point during their battle, one or both lost their horse, and continued the fight on foot? Well yeah. It's right in the text. They had come together at the ford of the Trident while the battle crashed around them, Robert with his warhammer and his great antlered helm, the Targaryen prince armored all in black. On his breastplate was the three-headed dragon of his House, wrought all in rubies that flashed like fire in the sunlight. The waters of the Trident ran red around the hooves of their destriers as they circled and clashed, again and again, until at last a crushing blow from Robert's hammer stove in the dragon and the chest beneath it. When Ned had finally come on the scene, Rhaegar lay dead in the stream, while men of both armies scrabbled in the swirling waters for rubies knocked free of his armor. Ned says that they clashed while on horseback until a blow from Robert killed Rhaegar. So yes, the fight ended on horseback, and not in the water as the HOTU vision depicts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Well yeah. It's right in the text. Ned says that they clashed while on horseback until a blow from Robert killed Rhaegar. So yes, the fight ended on horseback, and not in the water as the HOTU vision depicts. Didn't you earlier (this version, or the previous one) specify that when Ned arrived on scene, Rhaegar was already dead? So Ned didn't actually see Rhaegar die? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markg171 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Didn't you earlier (this version, or the previous one) specify that when Ned arrived on scene, Rhaegar was already dead? So Ned didn't actually see Rhaegar die? I've said he wasn't by his side like he normally is. Not that he didn't have a view of the fight which he clearly did as he can describe how the fight went down. But he wasn't fighting right beside Robert seeing as he had to come over to where the fight took place. Ned says that when he gets to Robert's side, Rhaegar is laying in the water dead. Now seeing as Ned says the blow that killed him occurred while on horseback, Rhaegar either slumped out of his saddle when he died, was hit right out of his saddle from the blow, or Robert threw him there when he pulled his spike out of Rhaegar's heart. But Ned very clearly says that the blow that killed Rhaegar occurred while he was on horseback, while the HOTU vision has Rhaegar standing in the waters when he gets hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Didn't you earlier (this version, or the previous one) specify that when Ned arrived on scene, Rhaegar was already dead? So Ned didn't actually see Rhaegar die? Stop feeding the troll. Rhaegar lay dead in the stream when Ned turned up, and so far, we don't have a first-hand account how the duel went. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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