Sansa will marry Jon Snow v2

[The Ned's Little Girl]

You mean Catherine Parr, not Catherine Howard.

[WhitewolfStark]

You mean Catherine Parr, not Catherine Howard.

My apologies, I do. Somehow I'd switched the names in my head, but yes I do. Thanks. :) Editing to correct that.

[Gregor Clegane's head]

Lol, Sansa was never cruel to Jon, she and Jon remember each other fondly it's just Arya was closer to Jon and Sansa closer to Robb. Jon understands that Sansa isn't trying to hurt him, she's just stating the facts. I reckon if they ever meet each other again they will be very glad to see each other.

The only ones in WF who were "mean" were Cat and Theon, who both have their own reasons. Everyone else loves him and Jon loves them back, some fans really want to paint Sansa as some sort of demonic being sent from the 7 hells to torment all Starks.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

Its not that other people don't say it. Its that Sansa ONLY says that. Never just 'brother', she always separates him. That is shown by GRRM when in Arya I, Arya says 'He's our brother' and Sansa quietly says 'Half Brother'

Lol, Sansa was never cruel to Jon, she and Jon remember each other fondly it's just Arya was closer to Jon and Sansa closer to Robb. Jon understands that Sansa isn't trying to hurt him, she's just stating the facts. I reckon if they ever meet each other again they will be very glad to see each other.

The only ones in WF who were "mean" were Cat and Theon, who both have their own reasons. Everyone else loves him and Jon loves them back, some fans really want to paint Sansa as some sort of demonic being sent from the 7 hells to torment all Starks.

Book One Sansa was set up as a snobby, sycophantic bully. As the books go one she evolves but GRRM is still thematically punishing her as per the recent chapter. Whether we believe he should be or not.

[Frey Kings]

When Jon Snow gets resurrected. He becomes either the great other, azor ahai or prince that was promised. So if he does end up marrying Sansa/Arya, its not incest.

[Lady Wylla Manderly]

Sansa/Jon is one of the worst (popular) theories I've heard of. I've no strong arguments/proof against why it definitely won't happen or anything, but imagining Jon and Sansa as King and Queen In the North (together or separately) makes me cringe. A Ned look-alike and a Catelyn look-alike? Second generation Cat/Ned? No, thank you. I don't think GRRM would go for such a cheap thing. But you never know.

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

Jon and Sansa is the fastest growing "ship" for both characters in fanon. I can't stand Starkcest involving any of the Stark siblings, which means that it's going to happen. GRRM will definitely go for it... Arya will be too young to be a viable partner for Jon by the end of the series, Waterstones letter notwithstanding.

I don't see why Jon/Arya is less popular than Jon/Sansa among book readers, though. Jon and Arya have a much closer relationship.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Its not that other people don't say it. Its that Sansa ONLY says that. Never just 'brother', she always separates him. That is shown by GRRM when in Arya I, Arya says 'He's our brother' and Sansa quietly says 'Half Brother'

Book One Sansa was set up as a snobby, sycophantic bully. As the books go one she evolves but GRRM is still thematically punishing her as per the recent chapter. Whether we believe he should be or not.

Perhaps she doesn't end up too far from where she started. ..

Myranda's use of horseface was an echo of this...

Jeyne used to call her Arya Horseface, and neigh whenever she came near. It hurt that the one thing Arya could do better than her sister was ride a horse.

Arya I, Game 7

And this

One day she came back grinning her horsey grin, her hair all tangled and her clothes covered in mud, clutching a raggedy bunch of purple and green flowers for Father. Sansa kept hoping he would tell Arya to behave herself and act like the highborn lady she was supposed to be, but he never did, he only hugged her and thanked her for the flowers. That just made her worse.

Sansa I, Game 15

Sansa and her new best friend in Winds are a lot like Sansa and her old best friend in Game

For just a litle while, as she ran, she forget who she was, and where, and found herself remembering bright cold days at Winterfell, when she would race through Winterfell with her friend Jeyne Poole, with Arya running after them trying to keep up.

Sansa, Winds

Similarly, Harolds initial disdain was an echo of this

He missed the girls too, even Sansa, who never called him anything but "my half brother" since she was old enough to understand what bastard meant.

Jon III, Game 19

And this

If this was what the Night's Watch was truly like, she felt sorry for her bastard half brother, Jon.

Sansa III, Game 44

[Lost Melnibonean]

Oops.

[Lady Wylla Manderly]

Jon and Sansa is the fastest growing "ship" for both characters in fanon. I can't stand Starkcest involving any of the Stark siblings, which means that it's going to happen. GRRM will definitely go for it... Arya will be too young to be a viable partner for Jon by the end of the series, Waterstones letter notwithstanding.

I don't see why Jon/Arya is less popular than Jon/Sansa among book readers, though. Jon and Arya have a much closer relationship.

I hope GRRM doesn't go for Jon/Sansa - it would literally be the cheapest plot he ever wrote.

I agree with you about Starkcest. Okay so they're really cousins, which makes it okay by Westeros standards. But they still grew up as siblings and thought of each other as siblings. To simply wipe out their entire lives with a REVEAL!!!1! would be just too ugh.

Honestly: It's because Sansa is older and better looking. Yep, that's it. That's the only reason.

[King Crow]

Jon and Sansa is the fastest growing "ship" for both characters in fanon. I can't stand Starkcest involving any of the Stark siblings, which means that it's going to happen. GRRM will definitely go for it... Arya will be too young to be a viable partner for Jon by the end of the series, Waterstones letter notwithstanding.

I don't see why Jon/Arya is less popular than Jon/Sansa among book readers, though. Jon and Arya have a much closer relationship.

Arya/Jon vs. Sansa/Jon is a choice of whether Jon should be with the person he finds most appealing or the person with which he is most compatible. We are unsure if some of the things that Jon clearly wants (like being the Lord of Winterfell or having children) is something that would appeal to Arya,while it has already been established that Jon and Sansa share these goals.

Arya or Jon having to compromise on improtant issues may detract from their initial feelings for one another, while Sansa and Jon working together gratifyingly well may intensify their feelings for one another.

ETA: Ayra and Jon may be compatible. For me, it's just vague whether or not that's true. I'm not there yet, but I am starting to move towards the Arya/Jon side of things.

[Ice Turtle]

Arya/Jon vs. Sansa/Jon is a choice of whether Jon should be with the person he finds most appealing or the person with which he is most compatible. We are unsure if some of the things that Jon clearly wants (like being the Lord of Winterfell or having children) is something that would appeal to Arya,while it has already been established that Jon and Sansa share these goals.

Arya or Jon having to compromise on improtant issues may detract from their initial feelings for one another, while Sansa and Jon working together gratifyingly well may intensify their feelings for one another.

ETA: Ayra and Jon may be compatible. For me, it's just vague whether or not that's true. I'm not there yet, but I am starting to move towards the Arya/Jon side of things.

Jon is likely to spent the rest of his life near the front line, in harsh war conditions fighting the others and playing dangerous games using words, magic and politic in the same amount. Do you really see Sansa taking this life well? She likes tourney, finery and at best political intrigue. I am not even sure she really wishes for children or if it is only a part of her childish crusade for life of perfect lady.

On the other hand, I think that Arya in the end coming to a decision that she wants to start her own human "pack" may be a surprise GRRM is planning for us. Arya is actually extremely family oriented person, but she is still a child, she would not consider children just because it is a social expectation.

[Lady Wylla Manderly]

Jon is likely to spent the rest of his life near the front line, in harsh war conditions fighting the others and playing dangerous games using words, magic and politic in the same amount. Do you really see Sansa taking this life well? She likes tourney, finery and at best political intrigue. I am not even sure she really wishes for children or if it is only a part of her childish crusade for life of perfect lady.

On the other hand, I think that Arya in the end coming to a decision that she wants to start her own human "pack" may be a surprise GRRM is planning for us. Arya is actually extremely family oriented person, but she is still a child, she would not consider children just because it is a social expectation.

Agreed. I don't ship Jon/Arya at all (even though they're really cousins, it's far too icky and incest-y for me still) but Jon/Sansa is even more ridiculous, imo.

I'd like to expand a bit on what you've pointed out. I love Jon and I think he's far more gender-progressive than most men (and some women) in the series, I never got the impression that he respected feminine strength. It's actually quite the opposite.

"And yes, I will take your women too. I have no need of blushing maidens looking to be protected, but I will take as many spearwives as will come.”

There's also a misconception that Jon apparently refuses Winterfell for Sansa's claim? That's not so. What Jon does is that he tells Stannis that Winterfell should go to Sansa by following the laws of succession. And remember the conversation, please. It's clear that Jon thinks this in terms of "Sansa or any northerner, just not a southerner. Unless you want all northmen to hate you." The context of that conversation is misappropriated heavily for favour of shipping.

When his cup was filled the king drank, and said, “Horpe and Massey aspire to your father’s seat.

[…]

Which would you have as Lord of Winterfell, Snow? The smiler or the slayer?”

THAT's when Jon says Winterfell should go to Sansa. He does not reject Winterfell FOR Sansa. But anyway, let's continue.

Jon respects and admires women like Val, Alys, Ygritte and Arya. They're all known for being stubborn and non-conformist. Whereas when it comes to more feminine women who adhere the society's rules, he's much less fond of them. Which I can't exactly blame him for, given his previous experience with Catelyn and Sansa. ("He missed the girls too, even Sansa...")

But the point is, Jon definitely has certain issues to work out when it comes to femininity, which Sansa represents. Sansa clearly has issues to work out with class, as she's one of the most classist characters in the series. The idea that Jon will be so swept away by her beauty that he will go to a "But you're not like other feminine women," and the idea that Sansa will be so impressed by Jon and start thinking "He's not like other bastards," is an incredibly uncomfortable concept to me. (It's even worse if Jon turns out to be a legitimate son and Sansa gets attracted to him after learning that, because come on now.)

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

Sansa played no role in him rejecting Winterfell. He rejected it because of his vows and because it involved turning his back on the old gods and burning the heart tree.

His mention of Sansa is an easy way of rejecting it, 'its not mine to take anyway' without going into his reasons at length,

Jon is likely to spent the rest of his life near the front line, in harsh war conditions fighting the others and playing dangerous games using words, magic and politic in the same amount. Do you really see Sansa taking this life well? She likes tourney, finery and at best political intrigue. I am not even sure she really wishes for children or if it is only a part of her childish crusade for life of perfect lady.

On the other hand, I think that Arya in the end coming to a decision that she wants to start her own human "pack" may be a surprise GRRM is planning for us. Arya is actually extremely family oriented person, but she is still a child, she would not consider children just because it is a social expectation.

Only if you ignore the fact that Jon and Arya think the same way which is why they say things at the same time and why they are both on similar paths with their orders. Arya just gets there a little later because she is younger. Even across the distances in different situations, their inner monologues are echoes of each other.

eg.

sending Arya to Braavos, Arya is already in Braavos.

'He missed the girls too, even Sansa,' 'And I want to see Jon too, and Bran and Rickon, and Mother. Even Sansa','Needle was Robb and Bran and Rickon, her mother and her father, even Sansa.'

'She would have given anything if Jon had been here to call her "little sister" and muss her hair', 'He wanted to believe it would be Arya. He wanted to see her face again, to smile at her and muss her hair, to tell her she was safe..'He remembered suddenly how he used to muss Arya's hair. His little stick of a sister. He wondered how she was faring. It made him a little sad to think that he might never muss her hair again, He would give anything to be with her now, to muss up her hair once more and watch her make a face, to hear her finish a sentence with him. (By extension I particularly like Jon's thought 'with her dirty face and tangled hair.They would wash the one and comb the other, he did not doubt', comb her hair! The savages!)

'Arya never seemed to fit, no more than he had … yet she could always make Jon smile', 'He wanted to see her face again, to smile at her and muss her hair', 'Needle was Jon Snow's Smile' (How many people can say that they see Jon's smile so regularly its his defining feature?)

Perhaps she doesn't end up too far from where she started. ..

Myranda's use of horseface was an echo of this...

Arya I, Game 7

And this

Sansa I, Game 15

Sansa and her new best friend in Winds are a lot like Sansa and her old best friend in Game

Sansa, Winds

Similarly, Harolds initial disdain was an echo of this

Jon III, Game 19

And this

Sansa III, Game 44

Well she's being placed in the situations of people she mocked before, we would hope she is learning but I agree there was a home-y feel to that chapter and I'm not sure why yet. Unless she does marry Harry and he survives.

I think people really missed a sad bit of that dialogue, Arya running to keep up. She was being left behind by Sansa and Jeyne. As we see when she tries to talk to Sansa, Jeyne and Beth in book one. She is sitting right next to them but clearly not included. Arya really wants to fit in with the girls in Winterfell but is not allowed. Its quite Mean Girls. They mock her, they exclude her but she keeps trying until she gets Syrio and has her own thing.

Jon and Sansa is the fastest growing "ship" for both characters in fanon. I can't stand Starkcest involving any of the Stark siblings, which means that it's going to happen. GRRM will definitely go for it... Arya will be too young to be a viable partner for Jon by the end of the series, Waterstones letter notwithstanding.

I don't see why Jon/Arya is less popular than Jon/Sansa among book readers, though. Jon and Arya have a much closer relationship.

GRRM doesn't care about that. He's said so. Arya is older than most 40 year olds apparently, if a 12 year old as conquer the world then so be it, if he wants it he is doing it.

'You know, not really — because I haven't finished the story I want to tell. The story I set out to tell in 1991 is still not done.'

'Some major characters — yes, I always had plans, what Tyrion's arc was gonna be through this, what Arya's arc was gonna be through this, what Jon Snow's arc is gonna be. I knew what the principal deaths were gonna be, and when they were coming. That would be the closest thing.'

'I don't want to reveal what I've planned for some of these characters, but I'm pretty well on track with most of the major characters. It's minor characters like Bronn that assume greater importance.'

http://observationdeck.io9.com/george-r-r-martin-the-complete-unedited-interview-886117845

Sounds like he is still telling the 1991 story by the major beats even if how he gets there changes.

You know why JonxSansa is so popular recently? The outline pointed out GRRM is not averse to Starcest and Jon is probably going to be King. So that is how Sansa can be a queen. That is all. Some Sansa fans work backwards from a throne.

[Han Snow]

Sansa played no role in him rejecting Winterfell. He rejected it because of his vows and because it involved turning his back on the old gods and burning the heart tree.

His mention of Sansa is an easy way of rejecting it, 'its not mine to take anyway' without going into his reasons at length,

Only if you ignore the fact that Jon and Arya think the same way which is why they say things at the same time and why they are both on similar paths with their orders. Arya just gets there a little later because she is younger. Even across the distances in different situations, their inner monologues are echoes of each other.

eg.

sending Arya to Braavos, Arya is already in Braavos.

'He missed the girls too, even Sansa,' 'And I want to see Jon too, and Bran and Rickon, and Mother. Even Sansa','Needle was Robb and Bran and Rickon, her mother and her father, even Sansa.'

'She would have given anything if Jon had been here to call her "little sister" and muss her hair', 'He wanted to believe it would be Arya. He wanted to see her face again, to smile at her and muss her hair, to tell her she was safe..'He remembered suddenly how he used to muss Arya's hair. His little stick of a sister. He wondered how she was faring. It made him a little sad to think that he might never muss her hair again, He would give anything to be with her now, to muss up her hair once more and watch her make a face, to hear her finish a sentence with him. (By extension I particularly like Jon's thought 'with her dirty face and tangled hair.They would wash the one and comb the other, he did not doubt', comb her hair! The savages!)

'Arya never seemed to fit, no more than he had … yet she could always make Jon smile', 'He wanted to see her face again, to smile at her and muss her hair', 'Needle was Jon Snow's Smile' (How many people can say that they see Jon's smile so regularly its his defining feature?)

Well she's being placed in the situations of people she mocked before, we would hope she is learning but I agree there was a home-y feel to that chapter and I'm not sure why yet. Unless she does marry Harry and he survives.

I think people really missed a sad bit of that dialogue, Arya running to keep up. She was being left behind by Sansa and Jeyne. As we see when she tries to talk to Sansa, Jeyne and Beth in book one. She is sitting right next to them but clearly not included. Arya really wants to fit in with the girls in Winterfell but is not allowed. Its quite Mean Girls. They mock her, they exclude her but she keeps trying until she gets Syrio and has her own thing.

GRRM doesn't care about that. He's said so. Arya is older than most 40 year olds apparently, if a 12 year old as conquer the world then so be it, if he wants it he is doing it.

'You know, not really — because I haven't finished the story I want to tell. The story I set out to tell in 1991 is still not done.'

'Some major characters — yes, I always had plans, what Tyrion's arc was gonna be through this, what Arya's arc was gonna be through this, what Jon Snow's arc is gonna be. I knew what the principal deaths were gonna be, and when they were coming. That would be the closest thing.'

'I don't want to reveal what I've planned for some of these characters, but I'm pretty well on track with most of the major characters. It's minor characters like Bronn that assume greater importance.'

http://observationdeck.io9.com/george-r-r-martin-the-complete-unedited-interview-886117845

Sounds like he is still telling the 1991 story by the major beats even if how he gets there changes.

You know why JonxSansa is so popular recently? The outline pointed out GRRM is not averse to Starcest and Jon is probably going to be King. So that is how Sansa can be a queen. That is all. Some Sansa fans work backwards from a throne.

The idea of Sansa and Jon together seems ludicrous to me.

Funny how George specifically mentions Jon, Arya and Tyrion, the original love triangle. That interview is from 2013, so that is 22 years after he wrote the outline. Now, that I think about it... the way that outline leaked, how it was not suppose to be shared with the public. It's like someone wanted to prepare fans for what is to come with the last two books. And I'm thankful for it. Before it came out, the idea of Jon and Arya romantically was not something that I would even consider as a possibility. Now, after finishing my latest re-read with the outline in the back of my mind, I can see it quite clearly. And I admit, I'm currently thinking that it is going to happen in some capacity.