[TWoW Spoilers] Alayne I

[Fat Mac]

This thread alone shows that there's no way I'm going to be able to keep up with the threads once WoW comes out.

I like the chapter though. I liked Sansa's wit, and the idea of falcon knights. Harry the Heir is... interesting so far. A bit of a douche, but who expected anything different?

[ServantOnIce]

My thoughts on the chapter

1. It seems sort of a choppy read for GRRM. It was more like a draft he sent out to wet our appetites.

2. Myranda is a pain and Sansa would be wise not to trust her at all. She is clearly up to no good and probably wants Harry the Heir for herself. This story has so much potential.

Ser Luther B. wants Sansa, it is obvious, will he force himself to get what he wants?

If Mayranda wants Harry The Heir, will Sansa, will she end up with Ser Lyn C.? Unlikely as he has nothing, but . .

This story is rich, GRRM can go a million ways and probably will before Sansa's arc is done.

Brilliant

[Ser Not Appearing]

Lol, well that and the fact that it was a specific typo in the sample chapter I was citing.

Hah! Well in that case I blame you for being too subtle. :)

[Veltigar]

What a nice surprise to get a new sample chapter. I did not think we were ever going to get another one before the actual release of tWoW. I think it's clear that the show will bring something similar to the small screen in the upcoming season, hence GRRM giving us a new chapter.

Now some thoughts about the content:

1) This tourney is definitely set up to further LF and Sansa's soft power in the Vale. There were bribes for 46 of the best and brightest of the young Vale knights and on top of that the familymembers who accompanied the contestants were also handsomely rewarded. Add to that a month or so of free food, drink and board, the occassional party, Sansa outshining all the other ladies and the actual trill of the tourney and you just know that the entire Vale will be impressed by this splendour.

2) Harry the Heir is basicaly a younger Bobby B. I have been saying this for years and I do think Sansa in some ways parallells Lyanna here. Lyanna would never have encouraged Bobby B with things like "I'll be all the spice you need," but I can definitely see some of the other things Sansa says here come out of Lyanna's mouth (for instance: "I hope you joust better then you talk").

3) I wonder who Sansa's going to pick as her champion. Both Ser Lothor Brune and Ser Shadrich are definitely out. They are of to low a birth to partake in the joust, they'll have to stick to the melee. I do hope we'll get some inside on the melee, because that would probably involve a scene where Ser Lothor kicks Mychel Redfort's arse.

Imo that leaves one of the Waynwood's or Ser Lynn. Ser Lynn will probably be chosen if she wants to humiliate HtH a bit and have a champion who actually wins (plus, perhaps she might win Ser Lynn over a bit, which might come in handy). If she chooses a Waynwood brother, it will probably be kind, stuttering Ser Wallace. Of course something bad will happen to Ser Wallace then, it is inevitable.

4) Giant Lance lemoncake = peniscake

5) Like most of you, I really liked a SR who stood up for himself a bit more. He did seem smarter than before.

6) Shadrich definitely knows who she is. The problem is, he needs to transport her out of the Vale and that's not going to be easy. I wonder how that will happen, but I would not be surprised at all if at the end of that abduction Timett, son of Timett makes his reappearance.

7) Myranda doesn't know yet imo. I think she suspects that something is not quite right and that Alayne is not who she claims to be, but I do not think she knows that Alayne is actually Sansa Stark. Another thing about Myranda, was I the only one surprised at her feelings for HtH? It seemed to come out of the left field for me. I could understand it if it was a joke, but Sansa seems to think Myranda was serious. I wonder if that growing resentment/jealousy is going to be relevant for the rest of the story. A betrayal by Myranda wouldn't surprise me really.

Is noone going to comment on my new favourite character's name, Utter Sh*t, I mean, Uther Shett?

:bowdown: Good God, I did not notice that. This is definitely GRRM having a laugh and introducing the Vale's equivalent to Dickon Manwoody.

The part where Sansa finds the list with the participants of the tourney makes me wonder if Littlefinger was tampering with the jousting lists for some nefarious purposes. That seems like the kind of thing he'd do

Yeah, that thought crossed my mind as well, but I don't have a clue about what he's doing exactly.

No one in the Vale is going to let some uncivilised brutish Wildlings be Lord of the Vale, even if this theory is true

It's probably true, but there are more ways for that to feed into the main narrative than Timett suddenly becoming Lord of the Vale (although even that is not out of the question imo, if he's backed by his mother and by Daenerys and her firepower for instance). As Heir to the Vale and leader of the Burned Men, he could become a bridgebuilder between the two communities. He would certainly be able to get a bride from one of the more important houses (heck, who knows, perhaps Myranda winds up with him) and further the peace that way. He might get a title like Lord of the Clans or something like that making him an important Lord and ruler over all the clanfolk.

My immediate thought was the opposite - the long hair is sapping him of his strength. He will survive to be strong and shear his hair extremely short, hating to be reminded of anything he associates with his sickly childhood. Minus Sansa herself, I would hope, as she is the main factor in helping him grow out of it. Thus some irony - no woman will love his hair because he won't allow it grow long enough to matter. Wild speculation on my part, but it flashed through my head.

You know, if he survives, I can definitely see something like this happen.

[AdmiralKyrd]

I really want lemon cake right now.

The chapter was very entertaining. As much as I enjoy the current place of the story, I like being able to get away from all the dark horror that is currently going on in seemingly every point of view (except for maybe Arianne and JonCon). It's kind of a callback to AGoT where there were plots and schemes, but it was a simpler time. You can definitely feel the Vale being isolated from the war.

Sansa feels like a good progression to me. We started to get the sense that she was becoming more self-aware in the late Alayne chapters of AFFC. Throw some more time with Littlefinger in with that and it's no wonder she's beginning to learn how to manipulate people and make witty jokes. You still get the sense that it's Sansa from her internal thoughts, but she's putting things together differently than before.

Sweetrobin felt off. He aged a bit too much between chapters, talking about people plotting against him, etc. And generally he was very calm compared to his normal demeanor, but I guess you could chalk that up to the drugs. He's becoming more of a sympathetic character rather than one that you'd rather see fly. It's an interesting take. GRRM is going to have a really interesting melange of emotions for us in the future. What I thought was going to have the theme of a really twisted dark comedy, might have a tone of a lot of sadness or anger to it. There's more of an arc here than I would have believed existed.

And although this chapter hit on a ton of points we've been interested in, part of me wonders if the Vale arc isn't moving too slowly to sync back in with the rest of the story.

Overall, it was very enjoyable and it's great to have another piece of the story.

[NorthGirl]

No. It just confirmed Sansa's lemon cakes addiction is out of control. :P

End game of Sansa's arc: Winterfell is rebuilt... as a giant Lemon cake. An ice cream version of it. Like in Charlie and the Chocolate factory. :drool:

[Led]

To those who think someone will force himself on Sansa:

I am quite sure this will not happen. It would serve no literary purpose, since she has gone through a lot of trauma already to come to the point where she is now; development and "skilling up".

The storyline would make little sense if she came through all the nastiness with Joffrey, Cersei, King's Landing, Marillion, etc... goes on to prosper learning under Littlefinger... then suddenly someone forces himself on her, she is back to being traumatized and all development is completely undone?

And don't say that this would be in line with GRRM's writing style to subvert tropes or surprise us or whatever, because that's just not true :)

[mushroomshirt]

We've also known for a while, since Elio and Linda were guests in episode 88 of Podcast of Ice and Fire in 2012, that they've read a chapter from TWOW that they think no one else has read, that Elio thinks Sansa fans will enjoy. (One of the hosts, Ashley, is a big Sansa fan.) Around the 26:50 mark: "I think lemoncake fans will have some enjoyment from the chapter we've read".

Sorry I haven't read the entire thread, but isn't what Elio said particularly true: "I think lemoncake fans will have some enjoyment from the chapter we've read".

Jesus, I mean there is a giant Lemoncake that took every lemon in the Vale to bake. Petyr has to send to Dorne for more lemons!

If you are literally a fan of lemoncakes then this is the chapter for you.

[Annara Snow]

My thoughts on the chapter

1. It seems sort of a choppy read for GRRM. It was more like a draft he sent out to wet our appetites.

2. Myranda is a pain and Sansa would be wise not to trust her at all. She is clearly up to no good and probably wants Harry the Heir for herself. This story has so much potential.

Ser Luther B. wants Sansa, it is obvious, will he force himself to get what he wants?

What?! :huh:

Because he's nice to her - that means he wants her (can't be anything else, right??_ and will try to rape her (!)?

We know that Lothor wants Mya.

If Mayranda wants Harry The Heir, will Sansa, will she end up with Ser Lyn C.? Unlikely as he has nothing, but . .

What?! :lol:

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

Sansa's transformation into a sex freak.

lol what? Where did that come from?

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

Still not comfortable with Sansa/Alayne and Miranda Royce friendship.

Why? I'm just curious.

[James Arryn]

Hah! Well in that case I blame you for being too subtle. :)

That's almost never what the arresting officers say, but cheers. :)

(Tbh, if you assume I'm at least partially the butt of like 90% of my jokes you'd probably be pretty safe. Not really humility either, but rather a curious kind of arrogance that assumes a certain level of accepted irony when being too critical while at the same time genuinely enjoying my own shortcomings; for example arrogance and/or the ability to turn any discussion into a conversation about me and how fascinating I am.)

[RobertRivers]

I got chills when LF said the night was hers.

[Annara Snow]

7) Myranda doesn't know yet imo. I think she suspects that something is not quite right and that Alayne is not who she claims to be, but I do not think she knows that Alayne is actually Sansa Stark. Another thing about Myranda, was I the only one surprised at her feelings for HtH? It seemed to come out of the left field for me. I could understand it if it was a joke, but Sansa seems to think Myranda was serious. I wonder if that growing resentment/jealousy is going to be relevant for the rest of the story. A betrayal by Myranda wouldn't surprise me really.

Am I the only one who simply assumed Myranda was just being Myranda and messing about with the "oooh you took my Harry away!" comment?

[Veltigar]

I got chills when LF said the night was hers.

Does that mean that Sansa will end up controlling Darkstar? :p

[Veltigar]

Am I the only one who simply assumed Myranda was just being Myranda and messing about with the "oooh you took my Harry away!" comment?

Well, normally I would agree with you but there was this:

“The betrothal was my father’s doing,” Alayne protested, as she had a hundred times before. She [Myranda] is only teasing, she told herself… but behind the japes, she could hear the hurt.

I do take Sansa's word for it in this instance :)

[RobertRivers]

Does that mean that Sansa will end up controlling Darkstar? :p

HAR! I was thinking more along the lines of the nights king and queen.

[Ser Not Appearing]

She is of the night!

[Ser Pounce FTW]

Or kissing and NOT thinking about the Hound :D

Well, while there was no kiss, this suggestion for what the controversy was wins the internet award based on what Ran said which started this whole thing in the first place:

"the sexuality appears without anything like even a passing nod to a certain other character often connected to Sansa."

Good work WoW! :cheers:

[ache]

Wasn't he story that Littlefinger used was that he had no idea that he had a bastard daughter until her mother died and she came to live with him? In Westeroes that is probably a pretty common story so it would be any real big news that Littlefinger or any lord suddenly had a bastard or two show up. Varys may be smart enough to figure it out but most people would not .

It might be a bit weird if Sansa was actually born in Gulltown, as stated in this chapter. Littlefinger lived there too at the time and it's a small world for the nobility.