aryagonnakill#2 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 I would like to address the line "a thin coat of ice just forming on it". This would mean 1 of 2 things. Either this event is in the far north and has thus already happened chronologically, or the event is significantly further south, since we know a lake not far from Winterfell has long since frozen over, enough so that even after many holes were cut that it is still strong enough to hold the weight of a lot of fully grown men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind Beth the Cat Lady Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 I agree with the OP's point. Alys Karstark is likely a red-herring solution to this prophecy, just as Sweetrobin's doll is likely a red herring to Sansa "slaying a giant in a castle made of snow" prophecy. Or at least I really hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Weirwoods Eyes Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Even if the girl in Grey is not Alys it still doesn't in any way back up the idea that R+L=D Chillypolly. I like the idea it is actually fArya, and Yolkboys link is really interesting, FAR more interesting than the tired and groundless "theory" that Daenerys is anyone other than Rhaella and Aerys's daughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiasyd Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 There is a theory (which I'm fond of) about Lyana Stark. Link: https://cantuse.wordpress.com/2014/10/29/lyanna-the-grey/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted March 2, 2015 Author Share Posted March 2, 2015 Even if the girl in Grey is not Alys it still doesn't in any way back up the idea that R+L=D Chillypolly. Hush. The mods in their infinite widsom have apparently decreed that we may not discuss that forbidden topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygritte Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 There is a theory (which I'm fond of) about Lyana Stark. Link: https://cantuse.wordpress.com/2014/10/29/lyanna-the-grey/ Nice! I like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind Beth the Cat Lady Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Even if the girl in Grey is not Alys it still doesn't in any way back up the idea that R+L=D Chillypolly. I like the idea it is actually fArya, and Yolkboys link is really interesting, FAR more interesting than the tired and groundless "theory" that Daenerys is anyone other than Rhaella and Aerys's daughter. Actually...this is kind of huge, if you think about it. Melisandre didn't say "I saw a skinny brown-haired girl, about 11 or so, riding here on a dying horse. Does that sound like anyone you know, Jon?" She said, "your sister." AFAIK Jon never describes Arya to Melisandre. So she's not identifying the girl from description, and she's not calling her Arya. In fact all she knows of the girl in the vision, in terms of identity, is that she is Jon's sister--she has to ask Jon about the name. In fact Jon thinks, "What do you know of my sister?" So it sounds like he hasn't even mentioned it to Mel before--and Mel didn't read or have time to hear about the letter, so it's not like she could have asked around. So if we believe R+L=J, then R+L must also equal a female sibling of Jon. And it would pretty much have to be a twin given the timing. Unless Mel is totally wrong yet again, which is always possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bastard of Walton Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Arya's (real Arya's) arrival at the wall perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Seed Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 In case anyone is interested, I was just reading an interesting theory on "The Grey Girl" last night. I found it to be very interesting along with several other theories about other characters. https://cantuse.wordpress.com/2014/10/29/lyanna-the-grey/#more-1031 ******** sorry, just noticed that Kiasyd has already posted the link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank of House Hutton Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Could it be Stannis sending fArya to the Wall after Theon brings her to him? From Theons sample chapter we know Stannis is sending a group to the wall...could fArya be part of that and that's what Melsiandre was referring to instead of Alys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AryaNymeriaVisenya Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Actually...this is kind of huge, if you think about it. Melisandre didn't say "I saw a skinny brown-haired girl, about 11 or so, riding here on a dying horse. Does that sound like anyone you know, Jon?" She said, "your sister." AFAIK Jon never describes Arya to Melisandre. So she's not identifying the girl from description, and she's not calling her Arya. In fact all she knows of the girl in the vision, in terms of identity, is that she is Jon's sister--she has to ask Jon about the name. In fact Jon thinks, "What do you know of my sister?" So it sounds like he hasn't even mentioned it to Mel before--and Mel didn't read or have time to hear about the letter, so it's not like she could have asked around. So if we believe R+L=J, then R+L must also equal a female sibling of Jon. And it would pretty much have to be a twin given the timing. Unless Mel is totally wrong yet again, which is always possible. Jon looks like a Stark. Alys looks like a Stark (because she's a Karstark). Alys looks like Jon. Girl who looks like Jon riding to the wall on a dying horse in a desparate escape = Jon's Sister. But its not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry the Hair Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Yeah I think we're overlooking the fact that Mel seems to think that Alys is the girl from her vision. So it really comes down to how clearly she actually saw that girl; did she see the face or just saw a teenage girl with a grey cloak. If she saw the face and everything then Alys would be the correct choice (unless she has a twin hidden away somewhere) if in fact Mel didn't see a face then she's misreading things yet again and ChillyPolly could be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa Snow Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Maybe the girl is Sansa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted March 2, 2015 Author Share Posted March 2, 2015 Yeah I think we're overlooking the fact that Mel seems to think that Alys is the girl from her vision. So it really comes down to how clearly she actually saw that girl; did she see the face or just saw a teenage girl with a grey cloak. If she saw the face and everything then Alys would be the correct choice (unless she has a twin hidden away somewhere) if in fact Mel didn't see a face then she's misreading things yet again and ChillyPolly could be right. IIRC, Alys does have the Stark features. So Mel (who is prone to self-doubts) could be convinced Alys was the girl she saw, if the girl she saw had a resemblance to Alys (ie. had the Stark features). It might not necessarily be a choice between "did not see the face at all" and "Alys has a twin sister" with nothing in between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreign675 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Maybe the Lake has some kind of symbolic meaning? some suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind Beth the Cat Lady Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Only thing I can think about the lake is that I don't think it's Long Lake or even a lake in the North. Because it's described as just beginning to get a sheet of ice on it (paraphrase). By this point, aren't all the lakes in the North pretty much frozen solid? An endless lake, which in the future will be beginning to ice over...sounds more like the God's Eye to me. Especially with winter just coming to the Riverlands/Crownlands at the ends of books 4&5. The "Lyanna the Grey" analysis went a long way to convincing me of this. I don't think the Grey Girl is Lyanna, because I do think Mel is correct about the vision being in the future, but I think the poster of that is onto something about the surroundings being much more like God's Eye than anywhere in the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clegane'sPup Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Following up on a point made in a locked thread. (1) Mel tells Jon her vision of the "grey girl" concerns the future ("It has not happened yet, but it will"). So I call that a "prophesy". (2) Alys does not wear grey at all, as far as we know. Jon assumes she wears grey, because of the prophesy, but when he sees her, the garments she came in are completely hidden from him. Why would GRRM do that? (3) The girl in grey was seen riding beside a seemingly endless lakeshore. There is no large lake between Karhold and Castle Black. (4) The girl in grey rode a dying horse by the large lake; Alys arrived with a dying horse at Castle Black. Whether it is the Long Lake, or the Gods Eye, or some other lake, these are radically separated locations. Dying horses don't die forever. They ride on for a few miles, and then they drop. (5) Why would GRRM make such a minor character the solution to a prophesy? (p379)Mel tells Jon, “I have seen your sister in my fires, fleeing from this marriage they have made for her. Coming here to you. A girl in grey on a dying horse. My thought is that it has not happened yet, but it will. I name that prophesy and a vision. You are correct there is no description of Alys’ clothes. (p590)Jon stepped over a puddle of damp clothing. She was curled up near the fire and wrapped in a black woolen cloak. I agree that Jon expects to see his sister because of what Mel told him. Back up to 413-414. Mel is talking to Mance. She asks how well he knows the North. Mance asks if Mels fires had told her where this girl in grey is. Mel describes the lake. Mance says, “Long Lake.” Mance asks, “She was coming north you said. “Was the lake to her east or to her west?” (If you look at the map in the flaps of ADWD) Long Lake is northeast of Karhold. Jump to p588, NW men picked the girl up two leagues (a league is approximately 3.5 miles) south of Mole’s Town. Yet, Mance did not intercept this girl. He ends up in WF as Abel. Do you see where I am going with this? One chapter forward, two chapters back. Is it as confusing to you (posters in general)? It can quite possibly be prophesy (foretelling) that Stannis will send fArya to the Wall or Mel’s vision could simply be Alys trying to escape her kin. Keep in mind that a girl in grey on a dying horse is also stated as being a grey girl on a dying horse in the book. As to the authors style of writing I have no comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Greyscale. Who is Greyscale being forced to marry? Shireen is not likely to be the girl in this scenario and hers isn't the kind of greyscale that's going to bring the plague. That's JonCon and while he's many things, I don't think he could be mistaken for a grey girl. Besides, we already have a prophecy for greyscale. The corpse on the prow of the ship and grey lips, smiling sadly. That's Jon Connington, bringing the grey plague to Westeros. He finally gets home, to set Rhaegar's boy on the throne, and he brings death with him. Thus the smile and also the sadness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clegane'sPup Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 oops i typed northeast instead of northwest :spank: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry the Hair Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Just curious; how would Mel know that the girl is fleeing a marriage; all she saw was a girl in grey on a dying horse and a lake. Granted it's logical to assume that she's running away from something, but why a marriage? Did she hear the girl say something, did she see something else in her fires that suggested a wedding? Or did she just assume marriage since that was the logical choice if she thinks that she saw Jon's sister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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