Longclaw is Dark Sister. Jeor Mormont knew Jon would be coming

[Hos the Hostage]

iirc, Dany thinks at one point that she will give Jorah a Valyrian Sword in place of the one he lost, so there was an actual Longclaw that Jorah lost. Whether or not Jeor switched the swords is open. I thought Qhorin knew a lot more about Jon Snow.

[Lady Beefheart]

Lady BeeftHeart

You have so much hate in your heart and life. You wrote so many contradictory things anyone who reads what you wrote a couple postings up will see so I don't have to point each out...

About the sword, I stated that Dark Sister was not a Hand and a half sword...I myself corrected my own mistake in the title of the Post. Blackfyre is a Hand and half sword. Technically, Long Claw could be Blackfyre.

And I gave a VERY clear example of the Raven making a premeditated decision of knowing to be in the right Kettle at the right time, and do the exact right thing at the right time and say the exact right thin at the right time..When Jon was elected Lord Commander and the raven flew out the Kettle and flew to Jon and said his name and then right after Ser Alliser calls into the question the Raven not being Mormont's Raven, the Raven immediately proves them wrong and thus having an influential role in the choosing of the LOrd Commander of the night's watch.

Bloodraven knew the having Janos Slynt as Lord Cmmander would lead the watch and the defense of the realm down a dark road. He also knew that Jon would be a much smarter choice, (probably because we KNOW that Blood Raven can see the future, and most likely saw a future of how Jon would make peace with men north of the wall and permit the Wildings into the realm, thus diminishing the Wights army)

Now in my original post, Which ultimately was a question, but your hate LadyBeefHeart, blinded you and thought I was blabbering about a whacky conspiracy crackpot theory, I made point to reference that my question was only including the time leading up to Bran sitting on his Weirwood throne. Because after that Mormonts raven could possibly be warged by either Bloodraven OR Bran.

So I have clearly proven how Mormonts raven is most likely warged by Bloodraven and OR Bran. We also see more clear evidence in The Winds of Winter Chapter we have, Theon I. The Ravens brought by Arnolfs Maester or Boltons depending on how u look at it,

show signs of being warged when they react to Asha and Theon. saying Theons Name, Just like the Weirwood tree in WInterfell that had Brans face. and "THE TREE THE TREE THE TREE" to kill theon at the weirwood out on the island.

BOOM GIRL.

the question is did Mormont know? and was there anything more to Mormont? Could Long Claw be BlackFyre?

Now Mormont was more closely associated

My heart is just fine, thank you. I simply respond in kind to what I am given. You were rude, so I was rude back. There's no "hate" at all, and I was pretty polite in my initial post. If you want people to be kind to you, be kind to them. K?

Your post is all based on circumstancial evidence, every last snippet. We don't know what Bloodraven's motives are right now (everyone seems to have their own theory at this point), or what he could possibly want, so you're making a whole shitstorm of assumptions here, based on things we don't know at all. Is there even any evidence he gives a damn who the LC of the Watch is? We have no indication of that.

All I have said is that we have no real reason to think BR is warging the raven at this time. Would it be cool? Sure. But it seems like wild guessing at this juncture when it's just as likely that it's a plot device, foreshadowing, or maybe even the COTF. They're all equally as good guesses at this point because we have beans to go by. If you think that's hateful, you're probably just a tad sensitive, which frankly isn't my problem.

[Lord Lyman]

I believe there are two different swords. One is described as a bastard sword, the other as a longsword.

Darksister is described as being slender, yet Longclaw is described as having three fullers incised into the blade to reduce weight. This suggests that Longclaw would be wider as I don't see Dark Sister being wide enough for three fullers. Then again I'm no expert on swords.

[HelmHammerhand]

The size discrepancy remains an issue but it never felt right to me that House Mormont had a valyrian steel sword....they're not even one of the major houses of the North which is an admittedly poorer place than other regions of Westeros.....something is up with Longclaw but I don't think this is it.

[denny717]

Before I say anything, I want to announce that everything I say is presumption and by no means claimed to be proven.

That being said, I think it would be awsome if, let's say blood raven got blackfyre after the red grass field, and brought both swords north, and told the mormonts, a prophecy. Joer mormont doesn't believe it, but joins the watch just in case it comes true. finally the thing blood raven describes start happening, and he realizes jon is the person blood raven was talking about.

All speculation of course, but perhaps the sword that jorah possibly brought into exile was dark sister, which was supposed to go to dany.

Of course it's incredibly unlikely, so go ahead and pick it apart. I already no its bullshit so no need to insult me.

[aryagonnakill#2]

^lol, I don't even know where to begin. Can I just say that's not possible for a lot of reasons, like the fact that Jeor wasn't alive at the time?

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

And since we're on the topic, it doesn't make any sense for Jon to get Dark Sister. You know who it should go to? His actual *Dark* *Sister* (cough, Arya, cough).

I believe that is the only reason Dark Sister exists in the story. When he decided on 'Dragonsteel' Needle obviously wasn't going to cut it, so he made a blade wielded by a female warrior. It has never been used by a woman since, it has been in the hands of legendary men. It fits with key points of Arya's character 'The woman matters too', 'Girl, Boy, you are a sword'. Rhaenys never had an equivalent it seems, even ceremonially. Also, Visenya's skill seems to be her speed, the same as Arya's. I believe Bloodraven has it, to pass to Jon through Bran/Meera/Hodor. Jon will then give it to Arya.

[Lord Lannister]

Well Longclaw being some other VS sword would make a lot of sense. Jorah never mentioned Longclaw to my recollection, even when Dany promised him a VS sword. Nor did any of the Mormont girls. Nor did Jorah, who was impoverished enough to deal in slaves to please his gold digging wife, sell Longclaw during the time frame Tywin said he was offering a small fortune for a VS sword. So Jeor fabricating a story would make sense. Though not for Dark Sister as they're described completely differently. Maybe Blackfyre?

[oba]

Well Longclaw being some other VS sword would make a lot of sense. Jorah never mentioned Longclaw to my recollection, even when Dany promised him a VS sword. Nor did any of the Mormont girls. Nor did Jorah, who was impoverished enough to deal in slaves to please his gold digging wife, sell Longclaw during the time frame Tywin said he was offering a small fortune for a VS sword. So Jeor fabricating a story would make sense. Though not for Dark Sister as they're described completely differently. Maybe Blackfyre?

In fairness, we aren’t really around any of the other Mormonts long enough or under circumstances which would necessarily warrant their mentioning Longclaw. We’re also never inside of Jorah’s head (i.e., he’s not a POV character), so we don’t know his internal reaction when Dany mentions gifting him with another VS sword.

Also, doesn’t the notion that Jorah wouldn’t sell Longclaw despite desperately needing money actually make perfect sense considering what we know of poor Houses refusing to sell their own Valyrian swords to Tywin? That is, no matter how desperate you are for money, you don’t willingly sell/part with that type of a family heirloom?

[Lord Lannister]

In fairness, we aren’t really around any of the other Mormonts long enough or under circumstances which would necessarily warrant their mentioning Longclaw. We’re also never inside of Jorah’s head (i.e., he’s not a POV character), so we don’t know his internal reaction when Dany mentions gifting him with another VS sword.

Also, doesn’t the notion that Jorah wouldn’t sell Longclaw despite desperately needing money actually make perfect sense considering what we know of poor Houses refusing to sell their own Valyrian swords to Tywin? That is, no matter how desperate you are for money, you don’t willingly sell/part with that type of a family heirloom?

I've argued that it said something about Jorah's character that even at his slaving worst he wouldn't part with the family heirloom. Which makes Jeor giving it to Jon all the more perplexing if the family values that sword so much. The scenario that Jeor is actually covering up another VS sword makes a certain amount of sense.

[Aerys Blackfyre]

:read: :read: :read:

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

I haven't even started reading this and you already blew my mind.

We know he knows of the others, so the bloodraven connection wouldn't surprise me at all. But the question of the sword, I'm not so sure. has any of the of the living mormont's mentioned the sword?

I'm pretty sure Jeor mentioned that his son left it at Bear Island. It was one of his very few honorable acts before his exile.

[oba]

I've argued that it said something about Jorah's character that even at his slaving worst he wouldn't part with the family heirloom. Which makes Jeor giving it to Jon all the more perplexing if the family values that sword so much. The scenario that Jeor is actually covering up another VS sword makes a certain amount of sense.

I’m certainly not discounting the possibility that there’s more to Longclaw’s origins than meets the eye. And, you’re right, that if Jeor’s telling the truth to Jon, his basically leaving the sword under his bed to collect dust is a little goofy.

I guess I’m just more accepting, at this point, that the story Jeor tells Jon is easier to swallow than a Blackfyre or Dark Sister in disguise scenario.

[denny717]

^lol, I don't even know where to begin. Can I just say that's not possible for a lot of reasons, like the fact that Jeor wasn't alive at the time?

Well Joer has ancestors that lived at the same time that may also be part of it. I know Joer joined the NW probably way after blood raven disapears, and isn't born yet when this deal is made.

obviously there's many gaps to be filled, but it's not impossible. the missing blackfyre sword was put in the story for some reason, and it went missing after blood raven killed daemon, then captured daemon2 (didn't have the sword). Then another daemon was tricked into coming to westeros for a great council, where he was captured and killed by bloodraven. Maybe it's a stretch adding mormonts in the mix, but bloodraven has had more opportunities to get the sword then anyone outside the blackfyre family/ golden company. And if the golden company had it, they would have shown it off by now.

^lol, I don't even know where to begin. Can I just say that's not possible for a lot of reasons, like the fact that Jeor wasn't alive at the time?

[hear me bore]

I'm just wondering why the Dragonknight was using a woman's sword?

[Dorian Martell]

It just occurred to me....stuff

Mormont, when he gives the sword to Jon says something about how his son was at least good enough to leave the Mormont family sword behind when he fled to the free cities with his wife in tow

[matchesmcfly]

Visenya wasn't the only one to wield it. She was the only woman to, but the dragonknight and daemon wielded it aswell. I think the description of it is a bit odd.

"a slender blade made for a woman's hand" says more about the width than the length. Lol.

[matchesmcfly]

I'm pretty sure Jeor mentioned that his son left it at Bear Island. It was one of his very few honorable acts before his exile.

I know what the old bear said, I'm talking about currently living Mormont though.

[Snoop Arryn]

I think we'll find out more about Dark Sister in future D&E stories.... if we get them. We know BR carried the blade last, but we don't know for sure that it went North with him to the wall. Although, it is a common assumption, and I like the assumption for narative purposes.

If Dark Sister it made all the way North to the Casa De Weircave... then I also like the theory that Meera Reed ends up with it. A "Dark Sister" in her own way, different from Arya.

I don't think Dark Sister = Longclaw... I think we get 2 different descriptions for the swords for a reason. But the complete history of Longclaw itself over time with the Mormonts would be interesting to find out oneday.

edit- typos.

[Jô Maltese]

^ Yes. It also occurred to me, a bastard sword for Jon (is Longclaw Blackfyre then? Probably not, Blackfyre is likely to be somewhere in Essos.) and Dark Sister for Arya... But what about Dawn, the great sword, the light bringer? Maybe Jon will eventually swing it, moving away from being a bastard to become a great prince?