Longclaw is Dark Sister. Jeor Mormont knew Jon would be coming

[StannisForKing299AL]

But Jorah DID leave the sword...

Its a Valyrian sword owned by House Mormont given to Jon. Whatever its history before the Mormonts claimed it is not known, but it is not a Targ sword.

Halfhand's remark "I've been told a Dire Wolf runs with you."

I found that to be a little odd. Why would the Half Hand know about that. Being at the Shadow Tower and all. Who told him? Mormont? Why?

Half the watch has probably heard of the Stark bastard and his dire wolf. The wolf itself is unusual, the fact it's following him around?

Why is it strange that the Halfhand would know of this. The Shadow Tower isn't too far from castle black and it isn't like the two castles never communicate.

[DarkSister1001]

snip

The question is Did Mormont know? and what implications does it have for the story if the answer is yes

I don't think so. After the wights attack LC Mormont he has a sort of epiphany. He says that the NW had forgotten it's true purpose (defending against Others). I think if he had communication with BR he would be more in the know and wouldn't have been so surprised. I also think that communication between him and BR would have changed his decision on the Great Ranging.

[Lord Lannister]

But Jorah DID leave the sword...

Its a Valyrian sword owned by House Mormont given to Jon. Whatever its history before the Mormonts claimed it is not known, but it is not a Targ sword.

Well the whole point of the thread is do we have anything beyond Jeor's say so on Longclaw's history? I don't ever recall Jorah mentioning it, nor Dacey, nor any of the Mormont girls.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

I think we'll find out more about Dark Sister in future D&E stories.... if we get them. We know BR carried the blade last, but we don't know for sure that it went North with him to the wall. Although, it is a common assumption, and I like the assumption for narative purposes.

If Dark Sister it made all the way North to the Casa De Weircave... then I also like the theory that Meera Reed ends up with it. A "Dark Sister" in her own way, different from Arya.

I don't think Dark Sister = Longclaw... I think we get 2 different descriptions for the swords for a reason. But the complete history of Longclaw itself over time with the Mormonts would be interesting to find out oneday.

edit- typos.

Meera doesn't use a sword but the similarities with Arya I think are left over from the original outline, when Arya went North with Bran. Its a waste of 2/3 POVs in the same place so she was moved and Meera filled the gap. Hence she's the same type of character.

[Pod The Rod]

So now we've moved towards the inevitable conclusion of this kind of thread, where Jon gets every freaking Valyrian sword on the continent. Dark Sister, Longclaw, Dawn, Blackfyre... why don't we give him Widow's Wail and Oathkeeper into the bargain? Why not Lady Forlorn? Red Rain? Heartsbane? Maybe Dany will grab Brightroar on her way over from Essos and give that to Jon as well?

Is Jon supposed to turn into one of those monsters from Greek mythology and sprout 98 new arms to hold all these swords?

HE ALREADY HAS ONE EPIC SWORD, PEOPLE, HE DOESN'T NEED ANY MORE.

[Lord Lyman]

So now we've moved towards the inevitable conclusion of this kind of thread, where Jon gets every freaking Valyrian sword on the continent. Dark Sister, Longclaw, Dawn, Blackfyre... why don't we give him Widow's Wail and Oathkeeper into the bargain? Why not Lady Forlorn? Red Rain? Heartsbane? Maybe Dany will grab Brightroar on her way over from Essos and give that to Jon as well?

Is Jon supposed to turn into one of those monsters from Greek mythology and sprout 98 new arms to hold all these swords?

HE ALREADY HAS ONE EPIC SWORD, PEOPLE, HE DOESN'T NEED ANY MORE.

We're not giving him an extra sword. The question was: are Dark Sister and Long Claw the same sword.

[Pod The Rod]

I've seen at least one person so far suggest that he gets Dawn in the end and two suggest he gets Blackfyre.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

I've seen at least one person so far suggest that he gets Dawn in the end and two suggest he gets Blackfyre.

Jon and Dany apparently get all the special weapons, all the special prophecies, all the special destinies, because they are filled with Targ specialness.

Everyone is obsessed with Azor Ahai, lightbringer etc...few stop to wonder what the 6 direwolves for the Stark kids were for. *grumble grumble*

[Daedriic]

I see we've expanded from people being secret Targs to swords being secret Targ swords...

[Pod The Rod]

Jon and Dany apparently get all the special weapons, all the special prophecies, all the special destinies, because they are filled with Targ specialness.

Everyone is obsessed with Azor Ahai, lightbringer etc...few stop to wonder what the 6 direwolves for the Stark kids were for. *grumble grumble*

Footwarmers on cold winter nights, apparently.

[Aemond's Eye]

I'm just wondering why the Dragonknight was using a woman's sword?

Dark Sister isn't "a woman's sword" - it's just smaller and lighter than Blackfyre; the latter was the 'main sword' of House Targaryen.

Dark Sister isn't Longclaw. It'd take great foresight for Jeor Mormont to know that his son, Jorah, would sell men into slavery and have to be exiled from the realm, and even greater foresight still to know that he'd leave the sword behind. It wouldn't make sense that Jeor would leave him Longclaw if he knew it was Dark Sister. And it'd make even less sense that Jorah did leave Longclaw behind for Jeor, that Maege did send Jeor Longclaw, but Jeor has actually hidden it and somehow passed off Dark Sister as his own House's sword.

As to Mormont being "more in the know"? Not likely, at least not much more in the know. Brynden Rivers disappeared on a ranging before Jeor Mormont was in The Night's Watch. Sure, it's likely that Bloodraven is warging the raven, but I doubt Mormont knows this. Especially as you'd expect him to be a bit peeved that Bloodraven sent no warning of The Others or the wights prior to the Lord Commander's tower having to be burned down, and Mormont isn't pretending with his surprise at those events.

It might be a nice theory that Jon already has Dark Sister, but it's one of those theories with no proof, let alone evidence. Folk can't disprove it as there's nothing to disprove. For a start, you'd need to track the whereabouts of Dark Sister from 233AC onwards, as nobody knows whether Brynden was allowed to take the sword with him.

Jon and Dany apparently get all the special weapons, all the special prophecies, all the special destinies, because they are filled with Targ specialness.

Everyone is obsessed with Azor Ahai, lightbringer etc...few stop to wonder what the 6 direwolves for the Stark kids were for. *grumble grumble*

From my time on the forum, it seems just as many dislike the idea that the Targaryens and Starks are going to be pretty central to the end game of the story.

Incidentally, it seems both families may have the common link there of Bloodraven. As it'd seem a bit coincidental that six direwolves suddenly appear south of The Wall, and that the possible Targaryen bastard ends up with the albino direwolf. It seems likely to me that Brynden had a hand in that; they were all supposed to have them.

Well the whole point of the thread is do we have anything beyond Jeor's say so on Longclaw's history? I don't ever recall Jorah mentioning it, nor Dacey, nor any of the Mormont girls.

Jorah does mention it. Dacey has no reason to mention it, as the Mormonts had sent it back to Jeor at The Wall. I mean, pointing to the fact that it's not discussed by the Mormonts doesn't really show that there's anything funny about Longclaw or that Jeor was lying. The theory that Longclaw isn't what he says it is has to be proven, rather than folk prove that he's telling the truth.

[NOT A TARG I SWEAR]

Oh god secret Targ theories have not only enveloped the people of Westeros but their weapons as well.

[matchesmcfly]

I actually would like for Jon to end up with another sword, cause I'm hoping jorah redeems himself enough to get longclaw back. So Jon borrowing dawn might not be a terrible idea. I hope it does so the people who derail these kinds of threads end up with something to actually bitch about.

[Lord Lannister]

I actually would like for Jon to end up with another sword, cause I'm hoping jorah redeems himself enough to get longclaw back. So Jon borrowing dawn might not be a terrible idea. I hope it does so the people who derail these kinds of threads end up with something to actually bitch about.

I'd agree with this. Jorah was always one of my favorite characters albeit a tragic one. His own worst enemy in some cases and proof that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Either way, Jon returning the sword to the Mormonts, Jorah or not, would be a classy move.

[G-Stark]

Great theory. First time I've heard it.

Makes sense.

The question I've always thought is how is Jon going to turn Longclaw into Lightbringer or get hold of a fiery sword.

Bloodraven leaving his sword at Castle Black makes total sense.

[Dorian Martell]

We're not giving him an extra sword. The question was: are Dark Sister and Long Claw the same sword.

I've seen at least one person so far suggest that he gets Dawn in the end and two suggest he gets Blackfyre.

He gets everything, all the swords, all the women and the iron throne. Because everyone that suggests that bullshit is intimately familiar with GRRM's writing style where every character gets everything they want and has a happy ending

[Ser Creighton]

Jon and Dany apparently get all the special weapons, all the special prophecies, all the special destinies, because they are filled with Targ specialness.

Everyone is obsessed with Azor Ahai, lightbringer etc...few stop to wonder what the 6 direwolves for the Stark kids were for. *grumble grumble*

You are always so angry about Targs. Now we know Jon and Dany do have the special, but let us not forget the Targaryens are a giving and carrying group.

So lets start with those Dire wolves. Everyone pretty much knows where they came from and who laid that scene for them. So we know Bloodraven has been watching them since before Bran was born. And you now probably felt bad that they would not get any epic dragons to fly around on so he left them some puppies and a warning. Now of course Jon got he special puppy because he is Targaryen. But sstill Blooodraven did not want anyone feeling left out so they all got puppies.

Now Arya she got a puppy that saved her but that she had to chase off. She got Needle, of course a Targ gave her that too. Oh she got a coin she used to get to Braavos and even had her own assasin for a bit that she did not use to kill Tywin with. She got to join an order of homicidal sociopaths who worship death, that's always healthy for small children. But the good things Needle and Nymeria came from Targs.

Sansa got a wolf but you know what happened there. But to replace the wolf she got Joff, Littlefinger and Sweetrobin.

Robb got he and his wolf dead.

Bran got meet the children and is becoming a greenseer and a dire wolf and who is doing all this? Oh that's right Bloodraven.

And Dany may let a couple people ride the dragons, maybe even a Stark... Probably not but it could happen.

Lets see what did Jon get? He got Longclaw which the bird told him to take and he got, Ghost from Nuncle Raven, and he Got the bird and oh he got the obsidian weapons that somone just happen to bury right by the fist, not long before the rangers got there and Ghost just happened to find them. Ghost even tried to save Jon before he got stabbed, in Dance Jon said Ghost could smell danger and would warn him, and sure enough Ghost is show sniffing Marsh and growling.

Just wait till Arya sees the Dragons, probably run right over to team Dany, everyone is runing to join team Dany. So many people that it actually created a knot though some are not good. It's not like Arya ever had Dragon fantasies. Oh and she loves Nymeria, didn't Martin say Dany was like Nymeria? Why I do believe he did. Probably even bend the knee to her and be like your the best ever, and can I be on your team cause my team got all beat up and your team kicks ass.

Dawn will probably come into play at some point as well.

[Lord Damian]

Jorah had the sword but sent it to his father before going on the run for slave trading. It was mentioned in book one as well as the show. Darksister is with Bloodraven and will be weilded by Bran and or Hodor.

[Lost Melnibonean]

He gets everything, all the swords, all the women and the iron throne. Because everyone that suggests that bullshit is intimately familiar with GRRM's writing style where every character gets everything they want and has a happy ending

Don't forget Satin...

[NOT A TARG I SWEAR]

I don't think he's going to necessarily get either Targ Sword, but Blackfyre makes more sense to me if he were to eventually get one because all of the bastard associations.

He gets everything, all the swords, all the women and the iron throne. Because everyone that suggests that bullshit is intimately familiar with GRRM's writing style where every character gets everything they want and has a happy ending

It can get a bit much, yet I find it no worse than Dany=AA,PTWP,STMTW, full time abolitionist, miracle dragon birther, righteous future conqueror of lands that belong to her despite knowing little about it and having no recollection of ever being there, receives accolades for merely being birthed during a storm(personally Rhaella should receive the title/credit for that), etc.

Welcome to the world of theorycrafting between books released 5 years apart filled with prophecy and young characters with foreshadowed large future roles.