aryagonnakill#2 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Well it takes more than dragons to make fused stone, it also clearly takes blood sacrifice. I also think its inaccurate to say that the Targs were selling Valyrian steal swords. I think its clear they never did any of either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 I'm a big Rhaegar fan myself. I think she just doesn't want to present part of a theory without all the evidence. I've done that at times with parts of future essays and regretted it, because it sounds like wild speculation until you provide all the proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I just explained why. Very clearly. Don't take everything so personally. I wasn't being personal. I was being very clear. You explained why with poor reasons. Whatever. If I feel so inclined, I'll DM you with the question and leave out 'pray tell' as it seems to offend you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Arthur Hightower Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Just to clarify the second part of my question: we are always told that the dragons raised on Dragonstone grew larger and stronger than the ones raised in the dragonpit in Kings Landing, so what is the explanation for this dramatic, tenfold increase in the rate of dragon birth from the century before the conquest to the century after the conquest? It's a really really significant uptick, I can't believe this is some sort of oversight. There has to be an explanation for this increase. My guess is that they simply did not have the means to support or requirement for loads of dragons. After all Jaehaerys and Viserys had a whole continent to support however many dragons they needed, whereas Aerion and his predecessors only had a few small islands to provide for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 Well it takes more than dragons to make fused stone, it also clearly takes blood sacrifice. I also think its inaccurate to say that the Targs were selling Valyrian steal swords. I think its clear they never did any of either.How do you figure? Dragonstone was where Valyrians were selling V steel - we know that because after building Dragonstone, V steel flowed more quickly into the 7 kingdoms. The Targs moved there 100 years after it was made, and we know people were still buying V swords around the time of the Doom - Ned bought his a few years before the Doom. It's true - we don't know for fact that Targs were selling them, but it certainly stands to reason that they were, since they moved to a place known for selling V steel. At least, they would have sold them until they ran out. They only had two when Aegon invaded, so we know they weren't hoarding them. It's really neither here nor there, only tangential to the main two questions of why they didn't take more Valyrian tech with them, and why their dragon breeding record increased tenfold from the century before the invasion to the century after. I don't think we know that fused stone requires blood sacrifice. It may, but we don't know that. It's not creating life, so I don't see why death would be required. Waking a dragon or redirecting someone, sure, but just heating up and shaping stone seems a little less intensive. I think dragonflame to melt the stone and sorcery to shape the stone would be sufficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Equilibrium Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 My theory about synchronised activities of a recent fraction of Targs is substantial and very well textually supported. That Aemon and BR work together and communicate via talking raven is not hard to imagine. But, that is a tip of the iceberg. However, I cannot see Targs with Faceless Men. FM worship the god of death. I do not see Targs following that path. Every move from Aegon V and Aemon onwards (Aerys excluded), was a deep move towards balance. Some failed and some succeeded. I believe Rhaegar achieved more than anyone else. (at this point I have to issue a troll flock alert) Daenerys has done immense things on a global scale. But she has a lot of help although she is not aware of it. She has a lot of hindrance as well. However, so far she has shown a great instinct (or is it something else?) and did everything right. I know I am teasing a lot, but this is a very long theory. It took me a lot of time to assemble all the details from the text and I just don't want to post it just yet. There are small points I still need to call it complete. But, I am a long way from where I started and I am very happy with it. Duskendale gives me headache. So does Varys. http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/116939-heresy-134-the-faceless-men/ Did you read the excellent essay by Butterbumps which aligns with my hypothesis about them, especially in the "balance" part? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modesty Lannister Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 You explained why with poor reasons. Whatever. If I feel so inclined, I'll DM you with the question and leave out 'pray tell' as it seems to offend you. As I clearly stated in my post addressing Equilibrium before you commented on it, this is a very long theory that I have been working for for a long time. When I am happy with it, I will post it wherever I like. I am too tired to deal with flocks of trolls each time anything substantial about RT is posted here. So many people left this forum, because of that. I posted arguments that are sufficient for this thread. Equilibrium wanted to expand a bit and I just said I have a very elaborate theory on that. I am not contractually obligated to post it, especially before it is totally complete. I really value your enthusiasm LmL. However, I saw many people more enthusiastic than you leave forever and I do not want to be one of them. If you can find it in you to respect my position, I'd appreciate it. As I said before, you do not want to see what a flock of trolls can do. ETA: I agree that building Valyrian roads should not require blood sacrifice for the precise reason LmL suggested. However, some magic should be needed to shape melted stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Equilibrium Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I don't think we know that fused stone requires blood sacrifice. It may, but we don't know that. It's not creating life, so I don't see why death would be required. Waking a dragon or redirecting someone, sure, but just heating up and shaping stone seems a little less intensive. I think dragonflame to melt the stone and sorcery to shape the stone would be sufficient. It's magic, Valyrian steel requires blood magic and it's heating and shaping even smaller things. There are numerous instances of sacrifice being required to build or complete building in satisfactory way in many mythologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I wasn't particularly asking for an essay. A brief synopsis, sentence or snippet is fine. You're entitled to post or not post your theory as you will. Just don't get hissy when I ask an explanation for something that is seemingly out of left field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Equilibrium Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Equilibrium wanted to expand a bit and I just said I have a very elaborate theory on that. I am not contractually obligated to post it, especially before it is totally complete. Just to be clear I didn't urge you to post fragments of your theory, you even said that FM don't figure in, you didn't say your theory explains them as opposing force or impossible to be included. I said it's good direction to look in, not that there is definite connection. Death can be part of the balance especially if dark life-prolonging magic is involved. In what you have said even Rhaegar used death, his own, to support balance. Just to avoid misunderstanding, forums are easy to cause one and I don't like misunderstandings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modesty Lannister Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Just to be clear I didn't urge you to post fragments of your theory, you even said that FM don't figure in, you didn't say your theory explains them as opposing force or impossible to be included. I said it's good direction to look in, not that there is definite connection. Death can be part of the balance especially if dark life-prolonging magic is involved. In what you have said even Rhaegar used death, his own, to support balance. Just to avoid misunderstanding, forums are easy to cause one and I don't like misunderstandings Totally concur. I never felt you were urging me to do anything. Death is definitely a part of the balance, but I do not think death is a part of the philosophy of that particular fraction of Targaryens. I think atonement is. ETA: Will let you know about the Butterbums theory. Thanks for the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acnologia Targaryen Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Other than plot i know not what else to say until or if it ever gets revealed. Maybe alot of the sorcerer princes and so didn't want to go with them either since leaving was a big taboo for the Valyrians and was seen as weak. Maybe they didn't want to since it may also bring doom to them as well. You do raise an interesting point on the other 4 dragons that died during the century of blood. Hmmm well its obvious there was still in fighting with the Targs much like with the Valyrians and they used their dragons too. Hell maybe a bold targ tried to establish his own kingdom in essos (since before aegon it was said they still looked east) and disappeared with his/her dragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
239JMFL34109 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 i assume that when you loses 99.9% of your civilization that there is going to be a lot lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrinceHenryris Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 There's a lot of interesting stuff in this thread.While I agree with the posters who suggest it was a conscious decision by the Targaryens to avoid some of the Valyrian magicks, I wonder if it wasn't the Dragons that built the roads. Septon Barth's book in titled, "Dragons, Wyrms and Wyverns: Their Unnatural History". From what I can tell, Dragons are fire-breathing flying beasts. Wyverns are flying lizards who don't breath fire. Wyrms are fire-breathing lizards without wings. Maybe the Valyrians used Wyverns as beasts of burden and Wyrms as tools for construction/forging?It's just a theory, but if the Targs had brought either, I'd assume that someone would have mentioned it. Could Wyverns and Wyrms have been more valuable for construction?It's been noted that the Targaryen dragons were bred for war. Could that have been typical for dragons? Or, were the Targaryens the Valyrian equivalent of the Royces, Tarlys or Umbers? None of those houses are the richest, but when it comes time to fight who do you want on your side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted March 27, 2015 Author Share Posted March 27, 2015 I’ve thought about the GeoDawnians using firewyrms for construction, but it seems like a strange parody of Dune every time I try to imagine it... and plus, Battle Isle is not near any volcanic activity that we know of, and I’m not sure how they’d bring firewyrms on a boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted April 8, 2015 Author Share Posted April 8, 2015 Is the Red Temple in Volantis made from fused stone?? Three blocks later the street opened up before them onto a huge torchlit plaza, and there it stood. Seven save me, that’s got to be three times the size of the Great Sept of Baelor . An enormity of pillars, steps, buttresses, bridges, domes, and towers flowing into one another as if they had all been chiseled from one colossal rock, the Temple of the Lord of Light loomed like Aegon’s High Hill. A hundred hues of red, yellow, gold, and orange met and melded in the temple walls, dissolving one into the other like clouds at sunset. Its slender towers twisted ever upward, frozen flames dancing as they reached for the sky. Fire turned to stone . Huge nightfires burned beside the temple steps, and between them the High Priest had begun to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of the Vale Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Theywere probaly not premited to take the knolwlege with them as that could have made A threat for the empirie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Leftwich Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 It is probably as simple as they could not, as opposed to choosing not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted April 8, 2015 Author Share Posted April 8, 2015 So what's the deal with this temple then? Is it indeed carved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durran Durrandon Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 I’ve thought about the GeoDawnians using firewyrms for construction, but it seems like a strange parody of Dune every time I try to imagine it... and plus, Battle Isle is not near any volcanic activity that we know of, and I’m not sure how they’d bring firewyrms on a boat. Actually, the whole idea of dragons being used for constructing roads makes me think of the Flintstones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.