Arizona doctors forced to lie about abortions.

[Salafi Stannis]

I came across an article on the Guardian today, wherein it says that the Republican governor of Arizona, Doug Ducey signed a bill on Monday requiring doctors in the state to tell women seeking abortions that the act can be reversed through medication. The only problem is, it's complete bullshit, according to most doctors and health professionals commenting on the matter, with the American Congress of Obstrecians and Gynecologists have said "Claims of medication abortion reversal are not supported by the body of scientific evidence". This is some really troubling stuff and is especially forcing doctors to abandon and forsake their Hippocratic oath and straight up lie to their patients.

Link below:

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/01/arizona-abortions-doctors-women-reversible?CMP=fb_gu

[Errant Bard]

There is 2015/apr/01 in the url.

[brook]

There is 2015/apr/01 in the url.

I first saw this mentioned a week or two ago, its not an April fools day prank.

ETA http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/26/abortion-provider-arizona_n_6947946.html

[Pebble thats Stubby]

What?

I don't get the point.

I mean, most people are eitehr Pro-choice, - your body, you can choose as you will.

or Pro life - Abortions are murder.

I've not met any people that generally want to encourage people to have abortions.

maybe I'm missing something here.

[The King in Black]

New lows , every day

[Errant Bard]

I first saw this mentioned a week or two ago, its not an April fools day prank.

ETA http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/26/abortion-provider-arizona_n_6947946.html

The hell, it reads like an article of The Onion. I am flabbergasted.

[Bold Barry Whitebeard]

So after doing some research, here's what I found out.

A medication induced abortion requires two pills on different days. After the first pill, an abortion is 60% likely. After the second, it is 99% likely.

The law requires doctors to inform women that after the first pill, it may be possible to 'reverse' the abortion. This would be done by taking another pill which would flood the woman's body with certain hormones that would counteract those of the first pill. Pro-Choice doctors say it won't work, pro-life doctors say it will. Regardless, there is no scientific consensus on it and it seems largely untested at this point.

On the face of it, doctors should be informing women that if they don't take the second pill, the treatment is only 60% successful. It gets much stickier when it comes to informing the woman that this chance might be lowered by getting treatment. If it were true, then it is something that should be communicated. However, there probably needs to be actual testing into that before making it law.

For reference, the relevant text of the law is here:

(h) It may be possible to reverse the effects of a medication abortion if the woman changes her mind but that time is of the essence.

(i) Information on and assistance with reversing the effects of a medication abortion is available on the department of health services' website.

and

8. Information on the potential ability of qualified medical professionals to reverse a medication abortion, including information directing women where to obtain further information and assistance in locating a medical professional who can aid in the reversal of a medication abortion.

http://www.azleg.gov//FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/52leg/1r/adopted/h.1318-fsr.doc.htm&Session_ID=114

[Lily Valley]

That's horrific. The second pill (which is actually a heartburn medication which costs about $3) is highly effective on it's own without the more expensive RU486. It's the Mistoprostol which induces labor. RU486 alone can be dangerous.

What a terrible place to have to practice medicine.

[Gneisenau]

I mean, most people are eitehr Pro-choice, - your body, you can choose as you will.

or Pro life - Abortions are murder.

The abortion reversal, is basically a procedure that "reverses" abortion for women taking medical abortion. Basically they are trying to trick women who already started an abortion into "reversing" it.

[BloodRider]

And then when the fetus is no longer viable, they will sent them to jail for feticide.

[Gneisenau]

Dr. Delgado, who created this "procedure" has said on his radio show (51:30), that the husband (with HIV) should not wear a condom (because it is intrinscially evil) when having sex with the wife.

And then it comes down to the fundamental um principle that the husband and wife are tot- it’s a total gift of self you give yourself totally including your diseases and they have to realize that and if they’re not willing to do that than abstinence is okay and that’s a sacrifice that can be made but that using the condoms is just not uh acceptable because it’s intrinsically evil and we never um use an intrinsically evil means to achieve a good.”

[Pebble thats Stubby]

The abortion reversal, is basically a procedure that "reverses" abortion for women taking medical abortion. Basically they are trying to trick women who already started an abortion into "reversing" it.

but it also kinda says

hey you might as well get an abortion now before its too late. You can always change your mind.

and since at best the reversal is it might at best work (yet to be proven) while abortion I believe is 100% successful (if both pills are taken) I'm guessing this may result in more abortions being carried out than those fetuses that are successfully "saved"

although anyone who thinks anyone has an abortion without thinking things through is off their rocker.

[drawkcabi]

And then when the fetus is no longer viable, they will sent them to jail for feticide.

and child neglect :bang:

[Aemon Stark]

Well I suppose "reversing" mifepristone might allow for a continued viable pregnancy, but there would be no way of predicting success. More to the point, a medical abortion requires a specific regime, of which mifepristone followed by misoprostol 48 hours later is one. Attempting to "reverse" this regime is probably malpractice and I would argue that any physician advising this course is acting unethically and possibly negligently.

I also can't imagine that a state legislature can actually compel physicians to mislead patients about established therapies. It is nothing less than an exercise in attempted authoritarianism.

[Gertrude]

This doesn't make sense to me on any level and I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around it. I agree with Pebs, you're likely to get more abortions rather than less, which I assume is the goal (less, that is). I also agree with the point that women usually know their minds on this issue so fuck those who think we need extra special guidance and instructions and ultrasounds waved in our faces before we can make the 'correct' choice.

[Biglose]

@Gertrude

But you make money for the guy selling the procedure, who what a shock is big on this bill.

So let me phrase it out: MONEY, MONEY, MONEY, MONEY, CASH, $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!!!!!!!!

(The excalmation marks are being used as a hint for the insanity in it, as we are all aware more than 3 excamation marks are the sure sign of an insane mind)