Hightower was able to find Rhaegar. How? Implications?

[TerrorVoid]

So you do not characterize what he was doing at the Tower of Joy as hiding?

I believe you are wrong.

Just being in someplace people know you are isn't hiding.

He just went somewhere telling no one. Hightower thought about several places Rhaegar could be, like SH or ToJ, and checked them out.

[bent branch]

As has been pointed out, both Hightower and Ned found out where Rhaegar and Lyanna had been hiding out. Because of this we can assume that whoever told both men was someone who was in KL both before and after the sack. There are three candidates that I can think of off the top of my head, Pycelle, Jaime and Varys. Since it is pretty clear it wasn't Jaime and Pycelle was Tywin's man, it was probably Varys that told both Hightower and Ned. This has all sorts of implications for what was really going on in KL before, during and after the rebellion (only one of which is that Aegon is really Rhaegar's son).

[sweetsunray]

That seems likely. Who?

It must be someone who outwardly was known at least as pro-Targ, someone who's always been capable of keeping secrets, but also a decent human being and trusted enough by Ned. Could it have been Selmy?

[Mal Malenkirk]

It must be someone who outwardly was known at least as pro-Targ, someone who's always been capable of keeping secrets, but also a decent human being and trusted enough by Ned. Could it have been Selmy?

Not a bad guess. How about Ashara Dayne?

[sweetsunray]

As has been pointed out, both Hightower and Ned found out where Rhaegar and Lyanna had been hiding out. Because of this we can assume that whoever told both men was someone who was in KL both before and after the sack. There are three candidates that I can think of off the top of my head, Pycelle, Jaime and Varys. Since it is pretty clear it wasn't Jaime and Pycelle was Tywin's man, it was probably Varys that told both Hightower and Ned. This has all sorts of implications for what was really going on in KL before, during and after the rebellion (only one of which is that Aegon is really Rhaegar's son).

Varys was whispering in Aerys' ear, causing trouble for Rhaegar. He'd have told Aerys where to find him. And Rhaegar wouldn't have trusted him with his confidence. Ned never trusted Varys either when he was Hand. You'd think that Ned would act differently to the one who told him where to find his sister.

[sweetsunray]

Not an awful guess. How about Ashara Dayne?

I was thinking of her as a possibility as well. But I think she's a lesser possibility than Selmy for the reason that Ned fighting Arthur to the death (and Lyanna screaming from the tower at him) with Ashara as his informant seems very unlikely.

[Mal Malenkirk]

I was thinking of her as a possibility as well. But I think she's a lesser possibility than Selmy for the reason that Ned fighting Arthur to the death (and Lyanna screaming from the tower at him) with Ashara as his informant seems very unlikely.

Ashara would have hoped for a peaceful resolution and her suicide takes a different color if it turns out she was the one who 'narked' on her own brother. Just a thought.

[sweetsunray]

Ashara would have hoped for a peaceful resolution and her suicide takes a different color if it turns out she was the one who 'narked' on her own brother. Just a thought.

Yeah, I'm not ruling her out.

[bent branch]

Varys was whispering in Aerys' ear, causing trouble for Rhaegar. He'd have told Aerys where to find him. And Rhaegar wouldn't have trusted him with his confidence. Ned never trusted Varys either when he was Hand. You'd think that Ned would act differently to the one who told him where to find his sister.

Ned may never have known who told him where Lyanna was. Notice how Varys sent the message to Kevan to come to Pycelle's chambers. A child could have simply approached Ned, given him an anonymous note and scurried off again.

As far as the whole Aerys vs. Rhaegar stuff, we really don't know what was going on there. Selmy says there were rumors going around court, but that he was never approached by either side. So we really don't know how much truth there was to these rumors. And even if the rumors were true, it is not beyond Varys to be playing both sides or even to be doing what he was doing "for the realm".

ETA: If it was Ashara who told both men where to go, then it took both men independantly thinking that somehow Arthur's family would know where he was. Both Hightower and Ned found the tower too quickly for them to have been "following leads", imo.

[BalerionTheCat]

Do we know if Rhaegar and Lyanna went directly to the ToJ?

Maybe they were in the stronghold of one house supporting the Targaryens, waiting for assistance. I suppose Hightower went to the Harrenhal area, and asked for news of Rhaegar. Someone supporting the Targaryens would say nothing to rebels or brigands, but would assist the LC. Maybe the decision to go to the ToJ was Arthur Dayne only, after the departure of Rhaegar.

[Grayce Hornwood]

Not a bad guess. How about Ashara Dayne?

I don't think it can be Ashara. IIRC, Elia dismissed her from her service after it was discovered that Ashara was pregnant, sometime after the Tourney at Harrenhall. She then returned to Starfall, so she wouldn't have been in KL during the sack. I agree that it was Varys using one of his little birds to communicate with Ned.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Ned could have heard from the loyalists at Storm's End in which direction Hightower had gone, if Hightower had indeed stopped at SE however shortly.

As for Hightower himself, some have suggested Rhaella, though I think that the time that passes between Hightower being sent away, and Rhaegar marching, is a bit too long in that scenario. How he did find them... I don't know.

[WolfgangII]

The safest path to clear the mistery is to remove all these assumptions we, readers, have been making: We do not know if Rhaegar was ever at the ToJ (as BalerionTheCat said, Dayne could have take Lyanna after he found about Rhaegar's fate), we do not know if Rhaegar and Lyanna went to the ToJ straight from Harrenhall and we do not know if Rhaegar and Lyanna were together all the time.

We do know that at least three KGs knew about where Lyanna was and we know that Hightower were able to find Rhaegar and Ned was able to find Lyanna. I can presum that these three KGs, bounded to obey his King and his Lord Commander, could inform Hightower of his wereabouts. Maybe Hightower went back to the ToJ after the sack of KL (or told the remaining KG at the city: Jaime in case of need), and maybe Ned follow him there.

Now, what I can presum is that, if Hightower found Rhaegar, the latter wasn't incommunicated (and if the was, it was by his choice). That Rhaegar was able to (and eventually did) travel to KL (we do not know if he travel in between Brandon's arrival to the capital and the Eve of the Battle of the Trident and we do not know if Rhaegar ever talk or sent a message to Aerys after Harrehall) and that Rhaegar didn't try to parlay with Robert, but to fight him (ok, we are not sure about this, but I suppossed, given all the witnesses and Robert's close relationship with Ned, that if Rhaegar try to set a bargain or negotiate with Robert before the batlle, it have been surfice by now).

We don't know if Lyanna was at the ToJ willingly or by force, if she could go anywhere she want or if she heard about the death of his family and the war breaking.

We know Rhaegar could here news from KL and act on it (at least at the Battle of the Trident).

[Robbie7707]

Hightower, Dayne and Whent accompanied Rhaegar and a pregnant Lyanna (their eldest Meera) to ToJ. Hightower as Lord Commander was as obliged to return to KingsLanding until such time as either Aerys was safe (with the Lannisters assumed to be coming to Aerys rescue) or he was ordered to find Rhaeger. At that point it became incumbent on Hightower to skiddle to ToJ to protect the heir and his progeny

What do you mean by Their eldest Meera? Are you saing that Meera Reed is R&L's child?

[Grayce Hornwood]

The safest path to clear the mistery is to remove all these assumptions we, readers, have been making: We do not know if Rhaegar was ever at the ToJ (as BalerionTheCat said, Dayne could have take Lyanna after he found about Rhaegar's fate), we do not know if Rhaegar and Lyanna went to the ToJ straight from Harrenhall and we do not know if Rhaegar and Lyanna were together all the time.

We do know that at least three KGs knew about where Lyanna was and we know that Hightower were able to find Rhaegar and Ned was able to find Lyanna. I can presum that these three KGs, bounded to obey his King and his Lord Commander, could inform Hightower of his wereabouts. Maybe Hightower went back to the ToJ after the sack of KL (or told the remaining KG at the city: Jaime in case of need), and maybe Ned follow him there.

Now, what I can presum is that, if Hightower found Rhaegar, the latter wasn't incommunicated (and if the was, it was by his choice). That Rhaegar was able to (and eventually did) travel to KL (we do not know if he travel in between Brandon's arrival to the capital and the Eve of the Battle of the Trident and we do not know if Rhaegar ever talk or sent a message to Aerys after Harrehall) and that Rhaegar didn't try to parlay with Robert, but to fight him (ok, we are not sure about this, but I suppossed, given all the witnesses and Robert's close relationship with Ned, that if Rhaegar try to set a bargain or negotiate with Robert before the batlle, it have been surfice by now).

We don't know if Lyanna was at the ToJ willingly or by force, if she could go anywhere she want or if she heard about the death of his family and the war breaking.

We know Rhaegar could here news from KL and act on it (at least at the Battle of the Trident).

As to the first bolded point, you are right that we don't know if they went there straight after Harrenhall, but we do know that Rhaegar went to the ToJ. He named the tower, and why would he name a tower he's never been to?And, what's more than that, why would he name a tower he's never been to the Tower of Joy? It's clear that he named it such because that is the place that he and Lyanna consummated their love.

As to the second bolded point, it isn't known how LC Hightower knew where to find Rhaegar and Lyanna, (perhaps Varys, a known master at playing the game and playing both sides had some knowledge), but it is known that he did not return to the war after finding Rhaegar, therefore he was not in KL during the sack. From that piece of evidence, we can safely assume that he remained at the tower with the other two KG and a pregnant Lyanna. So it's highly unlikely that any of the other KG in KL knew about the ToJ.

And no, we don't know that Rhaegar could get news from KL. If he had been receiving news this entire time and not acting upon it, why would he suddenly change his mind with the appearance of Hightower? From this piece of evidence, we can safely assume that Rhaegar did not have knowledge of all the goings on, and the appearance of Hightower likely brought him his first news, thus prompting him to leave and deal with Robert.

Those are not assumptions. Those are inferences drawn from evidence presented by the text.

[three-eyed monkey]

This is a very good question, OP. There was a thread on this a few years back but it ran out of steam because the information we have is so sketchy. Some people blow it off as irrelevant but I'm not so sure it is. The problem is it leads to more questions than answers, but that's what makes the subject fun. I'm going off the top of my head now and I don't have the books at hand to quote, so i stand open to correction.

So the story goes that after the Targs lost at the battle of the bells and Jon Con was exiled, Aerys sent Hightower to fetch Rhaegar, while Selmy and Darry were sent to rally Jon Con's troops, and Martell was sent to meet the Dornish spears marching up from the south. Hightower obviously suceeded as Ned found him at the ToJ while Rhaegar returned to KL. At this stage one might ask why Hightower didn't return with him? If the White Bull was as loyal to Aerys as is otherwise suggested in the text, then it is strange that he didn't return with Lyanna too, who would have been a very valuable hostage. This question often sparks a debate about Prince orders over-riding King orders, etc. Personally, I think King's orders are trumps under normal circumstances, and that suggests to me that there was something else going on here. But back to the original question, how did Hightower know?

There are three options here.

1. Hightower found the Prince by chance, unlikely considering the scale of Westeros.

2. He knew where to find Rhaegar. I can't see why not. If he did it begs the question, did he know Lyanna was with him and if so then why didn't he tell the King, who surely would have commanded his Lord Commander to return with the hostage?

3. Someone told him. Again, very possible. Selmy admits that he was never in Rhaegar's inner-circle, which might count against him. Jaime know's Rhaegar returnded from the south, but never mentions the specific location. Vary's is another possibility, although his network seems far more effective in KL than out in the wilds, but we still can't rule him out. Ashara Dayne, Elia, Pycelle, and even Aerys himself are all possibilities. We just don't have enough yet to know for sure.

The greatest implications obviously lie with option 2. Personally, I think Hightower was on board with whatever Rhaegar was planning. And that's another great question. What was Rhaegar planning? It was more than merely removing Aerys in my opinion. If that was the case then he could have done it before marching to war, and perhaps even averted the coming battle. I think he was planning bigger changes, a return to older ways, and Hightower, Dayne and Whent were with him.

[Lord Damian]

The implications could be that Rhaegar secretly planned to usurp his father to make amends to those lords paramount that had been abused by the Mad King's actions.

Yeah, trouble is, there seems to be no communications or any explainations by Rheagar after trying to negotiate or defuse the situation.

[sweetsunray]

This is a very good question, OP. There was a thread on this a few years back but it ran out of steam because the information we have is so sketchy. Some people blow it off as irrelevant but I'm not so sure it is. The problem is it leads to more questions than answers, but that's what makes the subject fun. I'm going off the top of my head now and I don't have the books at hand to quote, so i stand open to correction.

So the story goes that after the Targs lost at the battle of the bells and Jon Con was exiled, Aerys sent Hightower to fetch Rhaegar, while Selmy and Darry were sent to rally Jon Con's troops, and Martell was sent to meet the Dornish spears marching up from the south. Hightower obviously suceeded as Ned found him at the ToJ while Rhaegar returned to KL. At this stage one might ask why Hightower didn't return with him? If the White Bull was as loyal to Aerys as is otherwise suggested in the text, then it is strange that he didn't return with Lyanna too, who would have been a very valuable hostage. This question often sparks a debate about Prince orders over-riding King orders, etc. Personally, I think King's orders are trumps under normal circumstances, and that suggests to me that there was something else going on here. But back to the original question, how did Hightower know?

There are three options here.

1. Hightower found the Prince by chance, unlikely considering the scale of Westeros.

2. He knew where to find Rhaegar. I can't see why not. If he did it begs the question, did he know Lyanna was with him and if so then why didn't he tell the King, who surely would have commanded his Lord Commander to return with the hostage?

3. Someone told him. Again, very possible. Selmy admits that he was never in Rhaegar's inner-circle, which might count against him. Jaime know's Rhaegar returnded from the south, but never mentions the specific location. Vary's is another possibility, although his network seems far more effective in KL than out in the wilds, but we still can't rule him out. Ashara Dayne, Elia, Pycelle, and even Aerys himself are all possibilities. We just don't have enough yet to know for sure.

The greatest implications obviously lie with option 2. Personally, I think Hightower was on board with whatever Rhaegar was planning. And that's another great question. What was Rhaegar planning? It was more than merely removing Aerys in my opinion. If that was the case then he could have done it before marching to war, and perhaps even averted the coming battle. I think he was planning bigger changes, a return to older ways, and Hightower, Dayne and Whent were with him.

Great analysys, but the problem with 2 and Hightower remaining at ToJ is that then the question remains: who told Ned? He ended the siege of Storm's End in the battle at Summerhall, after the sack of KL and then went looking for Joana at the ToJ in Dorne. That's a long way off, and without someone telling you, Ned would never have even gone there.

It also seems logical that Hightower would have first gone looking for any clue of Rhaegar in the area of Summerhall, where Rhaegar often went on his own. So, I think we may need to look for someone who was in the army laying siege of Storm's End. Another option might be someone who remained in the area of Summerhall and involved in the prophecy of the Prince that is Promised... The Ghost of High Heart comes to mind here. We know she ends up in the Riverlands, but was also once in Summerhall. How long she remained there is not known.

The interesting about her is that

a) she's involved in the prophecy of the Prince that is Promoted and may have been a source for Rhaegar to realize his path as he roams Summerhall, and returns there so often.

b ) She is not involved in the conflict and therefore could be both believed by Hightower as well as Ned without mistrusting her, and yet would not give Ned the information to realize that he shouldn't regard the 3 KG as enemies to fight to the death in order to get to Joanna.

[Poorboy78]

I said Hightower knew where Rhaegar was the entire time. Two Kingsguard to serve Rhaegar need and one to inform him in case there is trouble. Brandon and Rickard death? Not trouble. Army marching? Not trouble. They are marching on KL? That's trouble. Hightower goes to find Rhaegar to lead their troops, Kingsguard stay back to make sure Lyanna stay in the Tower and can't escape. Hightower is feeling guilty after RHaegar death over their dishonorable action. Sents a raven to Ned, tells him he has three Kingsguard with him. Tell him if he want to bring her back, it would be over their dead body.

KG want an honorable death, Ned comes and gives them one. Hightower might have also been the one that told Lyanna that he sent a raven for her brother so that he could kill him. Lyanna might have been afraid for Ned Life and call for Ned to maybe run away. So when he engaged the Kingsguard, Lyanna is creaming Ned name and the Kingsguard are given their honorable death.

[Modesty Lannister]

Varys was the master of whisperers then. I believe he would know where to look for Rhaegar and give Hightower some pointers. That's his job after all. And Varys is very good at it.