Stannis' Reaction to (F?)Aegon and Dany?

[Isobel Harper]

Well, as far as Aegon is concerned, people don't trust his claimed identity, so Stannis could call him another pretender. And Dany is a woman, and Westeros has never had a ruling Queen, so he can call her claim irrelevant by her gender and continue to call himself the true king of Westeros.

Aegon could be called a pretender by anyone, but if he conquered Westeros, isn't he the king anyway?

This. No one has a claim. There is a king sitting the throne. Everyone can rebel against him though.

[The Onion Kniggit]

Ffs, Stannis would rather have no dragons, instead of "small" dragons? :rolleyes:

StanStans Crack me up.

When did I say this?

I not a even a Stanstan, or at least I don't think I am. Stanstans from what I've seen would never bother to defend Dany on anything let alone against Stannis as I've had before.

[A spoon of knife and fork]

Here:

See, the fact of the matter is that Aerys violated several norms of conduct as they are understood in Westeros. All these houses, to varying extents, have a legitimate gripe against the Targs, and arguably, don't owe House Targaryen anything. What does Dany's "claim" mean exactly?

People are going to support whoever is in their own interest (or no one). The only reason a claim matters is as a point of attraction. In this society, blood (or a name) is what people follow. If people want to hold a grudge forever against Daenerys or Aegon, for aerys actions they surely can, but it's going to be only one of many considerations.

For example, it seems Dorne or part of it will join aegon. Not because he's got the best and most incontrovertible claim, but because they want to get rid of the Baratheon-Lannisters because of Elia, and they have an ancient rivalry (and that recently revived) with the Tyrells. In addition, Aegon provides a way for Arianne to pursue her personal ambitions, another big factor.

[RoamingRonin]

"I will suffer no other kings in Westeros." - a quote from Stannis, ADWD. Stannis hated Varys so it is unlikely he will believe anything the eunuch has to say about Aegon's legitimacy. While I can't imagine Stannis showing weakness, after fighting TWO5K for so long and dealing with the wildlings, I can imagine him growing desperate and angrier. The treasons seem never-ending and he's farther from the throne than ever.

On another note... the only thing Stannis will ever ride is a horse.

[Hos the Hostage]

Exactly how is anyone going to ride a shadow dragon?

[Mithras]

Exactly how is anyone going to ride a shadow dragon?

If shadows can cut through even hard armors, I think they can also carry the weight of a man, especially considering that the shadow summoned at the Wall will be significantly powerful than the ones Mel produced at the south.

[Mithras]

I wouldn't think it would need a rider. I'd guess Mel would just control it. Like she did with the shadowbabies. :dunno:

Stannis was also involved in controlling that shadow baby. He dreamed everything from the eyes of that creature. So, that shadow dragon will indeed need a rider.

Because it's been hinted that she will come to the realization he isn't azor ahai.

Lol, no.

[Justin Amey]

Stannis has no need to acknowledge the claim of Dany or Aegon. Stannis was going to capture Dany and Viserys in Dragonstone, but narrowly missed them. If it was only his loyalty to his brother that stopped him from supporting the Targaryens, he should have sent men looking for Viserys after Robert's death. Instead, he proclaimed himself to be king. Because the Targaryen rule of Westeros was put to an end fifteen years ago, and Stannis was the true heir of Robert. (I personally think that Stannis, like Barristan, knew that Viserys was crazy like his father Aerys, too).

Since Aegon has already captured Storm's End, there is no need for him to get the support of Stannis. So even if Stannis is willing to marry Shireen to Aegon, Aegon may not want it. He can easily legitimize one of Robert's bastards as lord of SE and the Stormlanders will welcome that lord better than they did Stannis, some thanks to Stannis's dabbling with foreign religions. For Stannis's part, if he finds out Aegon was rescued by Varys, he will put two and two together and suspect Aegon to be fAegeon Blackfyre. One chance I see for people welcoming Stannis is if he defeats Aegon after Aegon's men spread greyscale.

Dany is a different matter. While Stannis has no need to accept her as the rightful heir to IT, he must know that her dragons are required to protect the South of the Wall from WW. Irrespective of what kind of ruler Dany turns out to be, I think Stannis will sacrifice his claim to protect the realm, unless Mel or someone finds a way to steal the dragons from Dany.

I'm super confused by this statement, are you saying Aegon was rescued by Varys, he is an automatic fake?

Well, as far as Aegon is concerned, people don't trust his claimed identity, so Stannis could call him another pretender. And Dany is a woman, and Westeros has never had a ruling Queen, so he can call her claim irrelevant by her gender and continue to call himself the true king of Westeros.

For the most part, the only people that doesn't believe he is who he said he is are people that have never seen Aegon.

[Hos the Hostage]

@Justin,
I'm not saying Aegon is fake because Varys raised him. I'm not even saying Aegon *is* fake, although I believe he is.
1. When a dead prince comes back after 16 years, there are going to be questions about his legitimacy, as illustrated in epilogue of ADWD.
2. Stannis mistrusts Varys
3. Its widely believed that it was Varys who turned Aerys against Rhaegar.
4. If most of the readers would suspect Aegon of being a Blackfyre descendant, some of the characters will, too. Especially since Aegon is backed by GC. And GC only ever worked against the Targaryens.
Therefore it's very unlikely that Stannis or anyone with a decent knowledge of Westerosi history will accept Aegon as real, unless it serves their purposes. Fortunately for Aegon, a lot of people are going to support him in the current circumstances.

[Slaver's Dread]

I'll try to put the idea of a Targaryen claim to the Iron Throne to rest.

There is clear evidence in the text that any Targaryen has a claim to the Iron Throne. Edwin Tully's claim to Riverrun is stated in text to be stronger than the Frey who now occupies it after Edmure became a hostage. The same can be said for the Starks and Winterfell. How long does Stannis have to go on about Starks in Winterfell before it gets through?

King's Landing is a Targaryen seat. As long as a Targaryen is alive they will always have a claim. It just depends on if they can win it back or not.

IMHO, Stannis has a weak claim. The first king in the new dynasty fathered no true born heirs, beggared the realm, and made it clear in the eyes of gods and men that he had nothing but contempt for Stannis.

[The Mother of The Others]

there's ~ a 40% chance Stanns & Dany will share the fire faith by the time they meet. So that could get superstrange. My hunch is that he'll drop the fire religion and Dany will have picked it up, though, so that'd put them at odds and give them something specific to argue about. As far as Aegon, who the frick knows. For some reason I don't foresee Stannis & Aegon getting into it. Like, the story would resolve itself differently before reaching that point? Those two don't have a good gripe with each other, other than "Hey!" So I think the story would travel along other grudge-based grooves rather than the Stannis Vs. Aegon route.

[Justin Amey]

@Justin,

I'm not saying Aegon is fake because Varys raised him. I'm not even saying Aegon *is* fake, although I believe he is.

1. When a dead prince comes back after 16 years, there are going to be questions about his legitimacy, as illustrated in epilogue of ADWD.

2. Stannis mistrusts Varys

3. Its widely believed that it was Varys who turned Aerys against Rhaegar.

4. If most of the readers would suspect Aegon of being a Blackfyre descendant, some of the characters will, too. Especially since Aegon is backed by GC. And GC only ever worked against the Targaryens.

Therefore it's very unlikely that Stannis or anyone with a decent knowledge of Westerosi history will accept Aegon as real, unless it serves their purposes. Fortunately for Aegon, a lot of people are going to support him in the current circumstances.

1. True, but most of the people that are questioning him, never seen Aegon, those who claim him to be Aegon seen him.
2. As he should! ADWD should have been definitive proof that Varys is loyal to house Targeryen and has been his time as spymaster. Everybody that has fought in the Rebellion against the Targ should mistrust Varys (HE IS THE ENEMY).
3. He didn't turn them against each other, Rhaegar didn't hire Varys, Areys did. All Varys did was he did his job let the chips fell where they landed.
4. The nobility have almost a supernatural ability to tell who kids are who. If Ned Stark can pick out Gendry in KL after never seeing him b4, and brienne can pick out gendry in the Riverlands after never seeing him b4, you really think a blackfyre descendent could fool JonCon and Tyrion after 90 years of breeding in essos could produce a child of Rhaegar?

[Slaver's Dread]

• True, but most of the people that are questioning him, never seen Aegon, those who claim him to be Aegon seen him.
• As he should! ADWD should have been definitive proof that Varys is loyal to house Targeryen and has been his time as spymaster. Everybody that has fought in the Rebellion against the Targ should mistrust Varys (HE IS THE ENEMY).
• He didn't turn them against each other, Rhaegar didn't hire Varys, Areys did. All Varys did was he did his job let the chips fell where they landed.
• The nobility have almost a supernatural ability to tell who kids are who. If Ned Stark can pick out Gendry in KL after never seeing him b4, and brienne can pick out gendry in the Riverlands after never seeing him b4, you really think a blackfyre descendent could fool JonCon and Tyrion after 90 years of breeding in essos could produce a child of Rhaegar?

4. Jon Connington was already in exile and Tyrion has only seen one Targaryen in his life. Old maester Aemon. Not exactly the picture of young Dragonlord virility was he. House Blackfyre are all Targaryens, which means any child from that line will look like Rhaegar, who I think looked like Daemon Blackfyre.

That last sentence supposes the Valyrian blood isn't diluted, but since house Blackfyre spent most of its time in Essos that can be easily remedied.

[Justin Amey]

4. Jon Connington was already in exile and Tyrion has only seen one Targaryen in his life. Old maester Aemon. Not exactly the picture of young Dragonlord virility was he. House Blackfyre are all Targaryens, which means any child from that line will look like Rhaegar, who I think looked like Daemon Blackfyre.

That last sentence supposes the Valyrian blood isn't diluted, but since house Blackfyre spent most of its time in Essos that can be easily remedied.

Aegon was around 14 months old when JonCon was Exiled. I have a 14yr old niece that looks exactly like my Brother. JonCon have to have seen Aegon and knows what he looks like.

Yes they could possibly produce a child of Valyrian feature to fool an Essos native, but you're stretching it if they could find one that could fool one of Rhaegar running buddies.

[The Gallows Knight]

The Baratheons, real or fake don't really give much credit to the remaining Targaryen claims and really has anyone is Westeros really been clamoring for a return of the Targaryens? The only ones who actually decided now was a good time to go pick one up were Euron and Victarion Greyjoy, which should say something. In fact the utter lack of a cry for the return of the Targs during the war is louder than the mussing of the Setting Sun of Sunspear.

And to quote a commenter on an av club article:

"Targaryen History In A Nutshell:

People who married brother to sister, with a starting genepool of about three people, lived on a barren rock after the head of the household thought that being inside Fantasy Roman Empire was a bad idea.

After a few generations of continual fun-for-the-whole-family, the possibly autistic single male scion decided that might makes right was a perfectly reasonable personal philosophy when you're one of the three people on the planet who owns a fire-breathing winged death machine. So, he decided to take over large parts of the continent, wiping out three royal families in the process.

The decedents of this one man from his two lovely sister-wives ruled as a royal family for three hundred years. No one questioned if this was a good idea, because these assholes rode dragons and had all the ships. At one point, there was a nasty civil war due to a women wishing to be queen, and another due to a member of the family actually producing too many heirs.

Some fascinating quirks of this family is a penchant for madness, a family tree that resembles a shrub, many kings only having one grandfather, and the occasional stillbirth with wings and scales among the womenfolk. It took one who chewed on his sister-wife's breasts and burned people alive for most to realize that perhaps they were probably not the greatest people."

[Cayrouse]

retracted.