R+L=J and D?

[Bright Blue Eyes]

it does pass the basic timeline test. We know they are 8 to 9 months apart. We know that Dany was born after sack of kings landing. So that part is fine.

We know that Dany was born nine months after the Sack of Kings Landing. Well, eight and a half actually.

[NorthGirl]

I actually want to know why on earth anyone thinks Dany is not Aerys and Rhaella's daughter. Please someone explain.

[Isobel Harper]

Definitely a bunch of things that don't add up. I am not a believer of this. I just thought it was an interesting idea that i wanted to throw around.

It's fun to play around with theories. That's part of what this forum is for. And it's a good idea to try to look deeper into the story and the characters, even if we end up being wrong about our initial ideas. I've been wrong about theories I've considered possible as well, but in the end, it only helped my understanding of the books.

[Isobel Harper]

I actually want to know why on earth anyone thinks Dany is not Aerys and Rhaella's daughter. Please someone explain.

One word. Lemongate.

[NorthGirl]

Even if she's wrong about her location, it doesn't mean that her parents couldn't still be her parents. I've seen the mention that she might have been in Dorne instead, that doesn't make it less likely that she A+R's daughter, we know Doran wanted her to marry Quentin. Still see no reason to believe she's not their kid. Even less reason to try bend every single piece of info gleaned on RR to fit a flight of fancy? If a theory requires every thing we know to be a lie, I see little point entertaining it.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

I actually want to know why on earth anyone thinks Dany is not Aerys and Rhaella's daughter. Please someone explain.

That's merely a part of a bigger issue, let's call it "secret identity madness". Wouldn't it be totally cool to discover something brand new about the series, put together clues that author had put out there, but nobody before you was smart enough to spot? So people, essentially, make shit up. Most often it'll be a character's secret identity, suddenly nobody is who we were led to believe them to be, and nobody is his parents' offspring. The severest cases will defend their inventions to the bitter end and then some, way past entertaining and deeply into the "annoying" territory (yes, HS=HR, I'm talking about you, among others).

I don't know if there's a cure.

[Isobel Harper]

Even if she's wrong about her location, it doesn't mean that her parents couldn't still be her parents. I've seen the mention that she might have been in Dorne instead, that doesn't make it less likely that she A+R's daughter, we know Doran wanted her to marry Quentin. Still see no reason to believe she's not their kid. Even less reason to try bend every single piece of info gleaned on RR to fit a flight of fancy? If a theory requires every thing we know to be a lie, I see little point entertaining it.

I don't think her location of her childhood was wrong, per se, but I think the memories of them are somewhat false. Traveling around the Free Cities, she built up an idea of the ideal home and coupled it with real life memories in Braavos. The house with the red door and lemon tree "memory" is a conglomeration of these ideas and memories.

The possible false memory itself serves to propose that the "ideal" is only a fantasy. I'm not sure why some others don't see it for what it is myself, but then again, when are "Secret Targ" theories uncommon?

[JonisHenryTudor]

Lyanna dies of puerperal fever. It's an infection contracted during childbirth that uses the open wounds of the womb to enter the body. Without antibiotics the woman dies within 7-10 days after childbirth from sceptic shock. It used to be nicknamed the doctor's fever, because of malpractice with regards to hygiene. One of Henry VIII's wives died of it after her first child and only son he ever got. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerperal_infections

So, Lyanna's death has nothing to do with how many times she was pregnant. She birthed a child in a tower with little aid and poor hygiene for sure. That's it. The ToJ was a death trap for a woman about to deliver, without a source of fresh water nearby, and little aid besides perhaps one handmaiden/nurse such as Wylla and 3KG who know nothing about birthing babies.

Other than that - nope :)

Come on...wikipedia? :bang: But yes, in the middle ages plenty of women died in childbirth from illness or hemorrhaging.

And like sunray above, Nope.

[Isobel Harper]

Come on...wikipedia? :bang: But yes, in the middle ages plenty of women died in childbirth from illness or hemorrhaging.

And like sunray above, Nope.

I don't see what the big deal is. It's not like he's writing a research paper. ;)

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

That's merely a part of a bigger issue, let's call it "secret identity madness". Wouldn't it be totally cool to discover something brand new about the series, put together clues that author had put out there, but nobody before you was smart enough to spot? So people, essentially, make shit up. Most often it'll be a character's secret identity, suddenly nobody is who we were led to believe them to be, and nobody is his parents' offspring. The severest cases will defend their inventions to the bitter end and then some, way past entertaining and deeply into the "annoying" territory (yes, HS=HR, I'm talking about you, among others).

I don't know if there's a cure.

The cure is the rest of the books being released

[Consigliere]

it does pass the basic timeline test. We know they are 8 to 9 months apart. We know that Dany was born after sack of kings landing. So that part is fine.

No it does not.

[Balerion the kitten]

Ummm... I tend to deny theories based on circumstances without any text supporting them.

The only alternative route I could see is that she's Ashara and Rhaegars kid. But even then that's kinda crap.

Basically goes Rhaegar slept with his wife's best friend, Elia got super upset that ashara would go through with it even when she knew about their history, she sent her away, ashara went back to starfall, gave birth to the daenerys and her haunting violet eyes, found about about Elia and her children's deaths along with her brothers, jumped of a building and daenerys grew up in Dorne in the house with the red door.

Don't take that seriously as it has zero amount of text backing it up.

[Tyrion's Brain]

Even if she's wrong about her location, it doesn't mean that her parents couldn't still be her parents. I've seen the mention that she might have been in Dorne instead, that doesn't make it less likely that she A+R's daughter, we know Doran wanted her to marry Quentin. Still see no reason to believe she's not their kid. Even less reason to try bend every single piece of info gleaned on RR to fit a flight of fancy? If a theory requires every thing we know to be a lie, I see little point entertaining it.

Northgirl do you ever laugh in your life? I already said it's crackpot. just throwing out there to have FUN. I have said several times i don't put much stock in this but this is the boredom reached by waiting for this 6th book.

[Tyrion's Brain]

No it does not.

explain how it doesn't pass the "basic test"

[The Ned's Little Girl]

explain how it doesn't pass the "basic test"

Jon Snow was born right around the time of the sack of Kings Landing. Dany was born 8 - 9 months after the sack. This is what the author has said.

So the timeline doesn't work because your theory has Dany born in approximately the middle of Robert's Rebellion and is required to be a minimum of 9 months older than Jon Snow (if Lyanna got pregnant immediately after birthing Dany, which isn't too likely really), when in fact she is actually 8 or 9 months younger than him.

[Tyrion's Brain]

Jon Snow was born right around the time of the sack of Kings Landing. Dany was born 8 - 9 months after the sack. This is what the author has said.

So the timeline doesn't work because your theory has Dany born in approximately the middle of Robert's Rebellion and is required to be a minimum of 9 months older than Jon Snow (if Lyanna got pregnant immediately after birthing Dany, which isn't too likely really), when in fact she is actually 8 or 9 months younger than him.

No my theory has Jon born during the rebellion and Dany being born after. When need finds Lyanna in the bed of blood

[NorthGirl]

Northgirl do you ever laugh in your life? I already said it's crackpot. just throwing out there to have FUN. I have said several times i don't put much stock in this but this is the boredom reached by waiting for this 6th book.

I actually laugh a lot about the amount of stuff that happens here. But this was my reaction to lemongate and generally Dany is not Dany theories, not your OP. No need to be butt hurt or take it personally.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Okay people. Here's my take on all of it.

1. Lemongate does not necessarily say that Dany isn't Rhaella's child. Just that she's probably spent some time in Dorne during her childhood and doesn't know it.

2. Why do people think anyone but Rhaella could be Dany's mother? Blame Alfie Allen for that one. He said he knows about Jon's parentage and that it's sort of a Star Wars situation. He could very easily have meant that Jon doesn't know who his father was, that Jon's mother died shortly after giving birth to him, that Jon was raised by his uncle, all three, etc. But, since Luke had a twin sister and they were separated and she was raised as someone else's child, the Twins Theory was born. No pun intended.

3. It can work but only with major stretching.....

A. GRRM has said that Jon is not a full year older than Dany, "closer to 8-9 months." It can be argued (though not well) that a few minutes apart is closer to 8-9 months than a year would be. This borders on accusing GRRM of outright lying, which so far he has not done. He can be very cleverly evasive, but pure falsehood is not his style.

B. Dany was named--or "most like" named--by her mother. This is not really an impediment, as Lyanna could easily have chosen Daenerys for the name, possibly in part to ease the sting to the Martells by choosing to name the child after the Targaryen princess from whom Elia herself was descended.

C. In order for Dany to be Lyanna's daughter we have to assume that someone (*cough* Ashara Dayne *cough*) smuggled her to Dragonstone, where she was kept hidden, then queen Rhaella's child was stillborn or died shortly after birth--not hard to believe given her history with childbearing--and the queen, before she died made everyone swear to claim that Rhaegar's daughter was her child. Viserys was eight years old. He wouldn't have known that his "sister" was too big for her age, or ahead in development, he wouldn't have questioned it until he got older, and by the time he would have thought that far he was busy trying to survive and keep his "sister" alive too. The whole fobbing off of Lyanna's child as Rhaella's works a lot better if Dany was a small baby at birth, and when she was swapped they claimed she was big for her age.

D. One benefit to this idea is that it gives us a plausible explanation for why Ashara's family might lie about her disappearance. And if she had recently lost her own child, she could act as wetnurse for little Dany.

E. The Twin Theory actually works better if "Aegon" is Jon's twin, and was smuggled out by the combined efforts of Varys and House Dayne. He could even be named Aegon (since the other Aegon was already dead at that point). And he's actually Rhaegar's son. That makes Varys both lying and telling the truth in the ADWD epilogue. Only Varys could pull that off. Cool, huh?

[nara]

OP, I have also wondered if Lyanna died during the birth of her second child, but I had not thought of it as being Dany--Wylla Manderly was my candidate. I haven't done as much research as others on timeline, but my thoughts were based on Jaime being 15 when knighted and still 15 a little while later when he was made KG at Harrenhal and 17 at the sack of KL. This meant that the RR could have been going on for 20 months or so. Also, since Rhaegar did not come back to KL until right before the Trident, I thought it possible that he impregnated Lyanna twice.

However, if Lyanna had been pregnant before running away, Jon would be older than Robb. In that case, Ned could pretend he fathered a bastard before he got married to Catelyn. That would have made her less upset than knowing that he cheated on her after they married. However, since he does not pretend that, Jon must have been conceived after Ned's marriage, which was a few weeks into the start of RR. BTW, in case you get any other ideas, this is the same reason why Brandon Stark cannot have fathered Jon either! ;)

[Tyrion's Brain]

I actually laugh a lot about the amount of stuff that happens here. But this was my reaction to lemongate and generally Dany is not Dany theories, not your OP. No need to be butt hurt or take it personally.

:)

side question-

butt hurt? Preston Jacobs fan at all? Hahaha