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Speculation regarding Stannis (book spoilers)


kat3281

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Was the spearwives/Mance rescue mission not a commando mission? Ramsay can use the same tactic. Night and snow. It's hardly impossible. Characters in the books have done almost the same thing with worst odds.

Who cares about Mance's mission? They aren't doing it and they won't replicate it with Ramsay. Mance and co. infiltrated Winterfell posing as camp followers and then over the course of more than a month killed a few unimportant people while trying to find a way to kidnap Jeyne. When they find a way, they all get killed or captured.

Ramsay will rock up with his twenty dudes and somehow do something major immediately, which is nonsensical. As was Yara's attack on the Dreadfort and Jaime and Bronn's excursion into Dorne.

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Who cares about Mance's mission? They aren't doing it and they won't replicate it with Ramsay. Mance and co. infiltrated Winterfell posing as camp followers and then over the course of more than a month killed a few unimportant people while trying to find a way to kidnap Jeyne. When they find a way, they all get killed or captured.

Ramsay will rock up with his twenty dudes and somehow do something major immediately, which is nonsensical. As was Yara's attack on the Dreadfort and Jaime and Bronn's excursion into Dorne.

But you're forgetting the part were they're supposed to escape with Sansa. They were going to use cover of snow. It really is that simple.

Other characters have done similar things in the books. Barristan sneaking into Duskendale. Brandon Snow wanting to sneak into the Targaryen camps to kill dragons. Jorah and Barristan sneaking into an entire fortified city. Or what about, Umbers digging a ditch right outside the gates of Winterfell without being seen. And the Faceless Men do more unbelievable stuff than any of that.

Ramsay has better odds than any of them. It's not like Ramsay is going to battle with only 20 men and fight off Stannis' entire army. If people can escape from modern prisons, I sure as hell can believe people could easily sneak into a castle or a camp.

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"I defeated your uncle Victarion and his Iron Fleet off Fair Isle, the first time your father crowned himself. I held Storm's End against the power of the Reach for a year, and took Dragonstone from the Targaryens. I smashed Mance Rayder at the Wall, though he had twenty times my numbers. Tell me, turncloak, what battles has the Bastard of Bolton ever won that I should fear him?"

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But you're forgetting the part were they're supposed to escape with Sansa. They were going to use cover of snow. It really is that simple.

Other characters have done similar things in the books. Barristan sneaking into Duskendale. Brandon Snow wanting to sneak into the Targaryen camps to kill dragons. Jorah and Barristan sneaking into an entire fortified city. Or what about, Umbers digging a ditch right outside the gates of Winterfell without being seen. And the Faceless Men do more unbelievable stuff than any of that.

Ramsay has better odds than any of them. It's not like Ramsay is going to battle with only 20 men and fight off Stannis' entire army. If people can escape from modern prisons, I sure as hell can believe people could easily sneak into a castle or a camp.

It's finding the camp in the mids of a blizzard with only twenty men that's the problem. Also he did not claim he was only gonna do something small and subtle. He was gonna hit hard enough to reduce 60,000 men to a feast for crows. An army of 60,000 men aren't gonna have just a dozen tents or one baggage train. No matter where he intends to hit them, it's gonna have to be massive.
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I believe that much like other similar incursions that happened in the show, no major characters will die. There will be conflict, Stannis and Ramsay will kill some people. Ramsay will at least partially succeed in whatever he has in mind, probably just burning shit up and maybe, I don't know, freeing horses.


There's that much speculated upon shot of Selyse lying on the snow. Maybe she and Mel will attempt to burn Shireen in the distraction created by Ramsay's skirmish, and that shot is from her being presented to Stannis afterwards.


The synopsis says that Stannis faces a difficult decision. I hate to say this because he is my favorite character, but maybe he will actually listen to Mel and consider burning Shireen after his army suffers more losses, and Davos will of course try to talk him down. Or, if Selyse and Mel go behind his back, his decision has to do with passing judgement upon them.


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But you're forgetting the part were they're supposed to escape with Sansa. They were going to use cover of snow. It really is that simple.

Fake Arya, you mean, not Sansa. That snow factored into their plans (no shit) is the barest of similarities. What Ramsay will do is not comparable, unless you mean to argue he'll be infiltrating Stannis' camp as a bard and then spend upwards of a month trying to kidnap Shireen and ultimately failing, in which case I'd agree the events aren't as ridiculous.

Other characters have done similar things in the books. Barristan sneaking into Duskendale. Brandon Snow wanting to sneak into the Targaryen camps to kill dragons. Jorah and Barristan sneaking into an entire fortified city. Or what about, Umbers digging a ditch right outside the gates of Winterfell without being seen. And the Faceless Men do more unbelievable stuff than any of that.

Ramsay has better odds than any of them. It's not like Ramsay is going to battle with only 20 men and fight off Stannis' entire army. If people can escape from modern prisons, I sure as hell can believe people could easily sneak into a castle or a camp.

Barristan's feat is legendary. Brandon wanting to do something is irrelevant; he didn't accomplish anything. Jorah and Barristan sneaking through the sewers is an example of Dany's slaver enemies being stupid, not something that should be replicated elsewhere in the story. The Umbers digging ditches out of sight is a fairly mundane tactic (and not even a relevant example, this is one army laying traps against another). Faceless Men are magical super assassins.

Sneaking into the camp isn't the stupid part in all this, it's being able to somehow cause significant damage. To kill or kidnap anyone important he'll be fighting his way through the camp and back out again, which isn't realistically achievable. If he intends to cause havoc... it's twenty dudes against an army, they'd quickly be killed and captured.

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Stannis is killed in episode 9 and the description of him “marching on” in 10 doesn't mean what we think it means. Ramsay is just wearing his flayed skin and marching around Winterfell until FBI agent Sansa Starling takes him down.



But, really, Stannis can't die until he is confronted by Brienne. So, no Stannis death.



Crackpot theory alert:


Maybe Ramsay thinks he killed him and sends Jon a letter stating such. Shireen is burned in the tent during the attack and Mel, Selyse and her are sent back to Castle Black to recover. They are there when the pink letter shows up at the start of episode 10 and think Stannis was killed in an attack after they left. FTW happens. Mel then tries to use the dead/dying body of Jon and the injured Shireen (since both have plenty of King's blood) to bring back Azor Ahai. Of course, Stannis isn't dead and he isn't Azor Ahai, so someone else wakes up.


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Okay, so what is preventing Stannis from dying exactly?



Stannis dies ==> Shireen burns ==> Jon is resurrected



This seems possible, at least. AFAIK, the episode 10 summary was actually fake, so we don't have confirmation that Stannis is in episode 10. He or his corpse most definitely will be.


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Okay, so what is preventing Stannis from dying exactly?

Stannis dies ==> Shireen burns ==> Jon is resurrected

This seems possible, at least. AFAIK, the episode 10 summary was actually fake, so we don't have confirmation that Stannis is in episode 10. He or his corpse most definitely will be.

If you think Stannis is getting killed by Ramsay Snow then you haven't been paying attention to the books. Stannis will be killed at some point, yes. But neither Ramsay, nor Brienne will kill him.

This will be Daenerys or the Others, most likely, and I'd put my money on the fact that neither Ramsay, nor Brienne will live to tell.

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Care to elaborate? ADwD left it ambiguous whether Ramsey killed Stannis, no?

(I haven't read spoiler chapters, so if there's something there, please do tell).

In the House of the undying Stannis is thought to be described as one of the lies Dany should slay. And Stannis himself had a vision where his crown is burning and consuming his flesh. And right now the last surviving legit male Baratheon is far more important to the story than the bastard of Dreadfort or the doing nothing knight in the Riverlands that Brienne originally is at this time.

So, if this show wants to do at least one iota of the whole story right, then no Ramsay killing Stannis and/or Melisandre burning Shireen (expecially by Stannis' order) should happen by the end of the season.

Pink letter and Jon 'dying' and that's it.

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