Speculation regarding Stannis (book spoilers)

[Locust094]

I think Shireen burns unintentionally when Ramsay sets fire to the camp. Entire storyline with her/Stannis/Melisandre tied up very neatly and then Melisandre goes back to the wall.

[Red Tiger]

Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't Mel already said to stannis in season 3 that he will at some point betray the ones he loves most to sit on the iron throne along the lines of "thousands will die at your command and you will betray your men, your family and everything you once held dear but it will be worth it."

I wouldn't put it past them to have him sacrifice his daughter in the finale

Yes, the season 2 finale.

[Daenerys_Is_Coming]

Davos survives this season as he is filming in Northern Ireland in July. He confirmed that in a recent interview.

Oh thank the Seven! After losing Barristan Badass this season I don't think I could have handled losing the Onion Knight too. I've found that I enjoy the story arcs (and acting) of some of the lesser characters far more than the holy trinity (Jon, Dany, Tyrion)

[Boudica]

Also, the pink letter isn't going to translate to the screen because Stannis is a POV character. They might use it as reason for Jon to march south (but given the battle in Hardhome, it doesn't seem like he would want to do that). But it's not going to have any impact since we will know it's BS.

The Pink Letter could still easily be included, if Sansa and Theon escapes Ramsay would naturally assume that they would go to Castle Black. So he could write a letter to Jon demanding Sansa and Theon back.

[Daenerys_Is_Coming]

What if we are all totally wrong, and that scene of Selyse in the previews is actually her crying out in agony from a wound and has nothing to do with burning Shireen? I could see Ramsay killing Selyse during his little sneak attack........

[jbob]

I'm not saying he'll fight them head on. But a sneak attack is not expected exactly for the reasons this is stupid. And again, you can't feed 6,000 men from one baggage wagon. Also, Stannis' men are mostly braavosi sellswords. Why would those just be southern men?

Can I just say how ridiculous these sentiments is? Renly is from the South, you think he knows the Westerlands and Dorne like the back of his own hands too? The North is near as big a place as the other Seven Kingdoms combined. It's not very densely populated but it is an utterly massive place to travel through.

Sneak in. Yes, do significant damage to cripple a thousands of men strong army when you are in there, then sneak back out of the camp and make a clean escape back to Winterfell is another thing entirely.

They're not mostly Braavosi sellswords. Nothing suggests that. He bought Stormcrows, but they all left him. And I was implying their unfamiliar with the territory. Being Braavosi would make them even more unfamiliar with the place.

Well, yeah. I expect people do know their own lands better than other people. Jon knew more about the North than Stannis did. You don't think that has anything to do with the fact he grew up there? Renly wasn't much of an outdoors man though, so I can see how he'd know jack shit about his own lands. I'm pretty knowing their own lands is what allowd Dornish to hide from the Dragons. The Boltons know exactly where Stannis' army is. They know exactly where Stannis' army is in the books. Where do you think Bolton has sent the Manderlys and the Freys? To attack Stannis. Not to find him.

You make sound like his trying to break into Fort Knox. He's just sneaking in and sneaking out. It's not impossible, it just isn't. Some of his men will die. But I don't think Ramsay much cares about that. He'll burn some some wagons. Spook or kill whatever horses Stannis has left. Those people are hardly strong. What I think they're trying to do is hardly any different that wht the Russians did to Napoleon's army as it march back home.

[Denam_Pavel]

They're not mostly Braavosi sellswords. Nothing suggests that. He bought Stormcrows, but they all left him. And I was implying their unfamiliar with the territory. Being Braavosi would make them even more unfamiliar with the place.

If all Stannis got in Braavos was 500 Stormcrows then he wouldn't have gone at all. No, when he left Dragonstone he was starving for manpower, when he left Castle Black, he had many thousands. Which he hired in Braavos, which more northwards then the Iron Islands and has the Shivering Sea to it's north and east. There is no reason for these people to as alien to concept of cold as made out here.

Well, yeah. I expect people do know their own lands better than other people. Jon knew more about the North than Stannis did. You don't think that has anything to do with the fact he grew up there?

These are not Ramsay's own lands. And Jon knew the defenses of Dreadfort, and how the mountain clans and the Umbers would react to Stannis and the wildlings respectively because he taught by the Ned, these people's liegelrd. These are not the advantages Ramsay can be talking about.

No he just knows every hill, farm or forest between Castle Black and Winterfell, a distance of over 700 miles and thus will have all kinds of advantages against any camp that situated itself in between.

You make sound like his trying to break into Fort Knox. He's just sneaking in and sneaking out. It's not impossible, it just isn't. Some of his men will die. But I don't think Ramsay much cares about that. He'll burn some some wagons. Spook or kill whatever horses Stannis has left. Those people are hardly strong. What I think they're trying to do is hardly any different that wht the Russians did to Napoleon's army as it march back home.

The boltons scouts reported that Stannis has 6000 men, HALF are horsed. So even if 9/10 of Stannis' horses are dead, dying or indisposed thanks to Ramsay's pyromancy, he's still gonna have HUNDREDS of horsemen after him after he starts these massive fires, which will at least alert SOME people right. Stannis will have some guards up, surely?

[Mordos_Kull]

Maybe Ramsay kills Shireen? Or even kidnaps her during the siege, thus given Brienne someone else to rescue in episode 10.

[midi]

EP9 Stannis' camp happenings imo:
-Heavy snow, watchmen can't see more than 10 feet infront of them.

-Ramsay's saboteurs sneak in and set the supply tents on fire

-Ramsay escapes back to Winterfell (meets Brienne on the way?)

-Stannis is desperate because his army only has a few days to live unless they take Winterfell, but doesn't want to sacrifice Shireen

-Mel and Selyse sacrifice her anyway. There's a minor possibility that Davos saves her before it's too late.

-Stannis is furious, banishes them back to the Wall and marches on Winterfell

[grufolo]

My money is on the show producers using the Ramsay +20 good men plot to avoid splashing a big lump of money of the Winterfell battle and resolve tho whole thing using a skirmish. They are putting their money to the CGIs needed in the East for the final episodes, and they used quite a big chunk of their quotas for last episode big battle, i am afraid.

This would also explain why the whole season looked so cheap, they wanted to trade in Hardhome and bargain out some stuff that people have missed. In hindsight it was a choice with PROs and CONs but ok i think.

There was too much on the grill to be barbecued with the show budget in the end. I think the whole WF trouble will be played dowen a whole lot.

[White Harbors Wrath]

If all Stannis got in Braavos was 500 Stormcrows then he wouldn't have gone at all. No, when he left Dragonstone he was starving for manpower, when he left Castle Black, he had many thousands. Which he hired in Braavos, which more northwards then the Iron Islands and has the Shivering Sea to it's north and east. There is no reason for these people to as alien to concept of cold as made out here.

These are not Ramsay's own lands. And Jon knew the defenses of Dreadfort, and how the mountain clans and the Umbers would react to Stannis and the wildlings respectively because he taught by the Ned, these people's liegelrd. These are not the advantages Ramsay can be talking about.

No he just knows every hill, farm or forest between Castle Black and Winterfell, a distance of over 700 miles and thus will have all kinds of advantages against any camp that situated itself in between.

The boltons scouts reported that Stannis has 6000 men, HALF are horsed. So even if 9/10 of Stannis' horses are dead, dying or indisposed thanks to Ramsay's pyromancy, he's still gonna have HUNDREDS of horsemen after him after he starts these massive fires, which will at least alert SOME people right. Stannis will have some guards up, surely?

Amen. But...you're using math and logic.

Ding and Dong know nothing when it comes to this. Ninja Ramsay will single handedly spook 2900 horses while his 19 other men light fires to approximately 150 tents (lets assume that they're putting twenty men to a tent...) before anyone even notices. leaving Stannis with 100 horses, a torch and Selyese's smallclothes.

[White Harbors Wrath]

The thing I'm interested in seeing play out is what does Stannis do if he survives Ramsays SEAL mission?

March to Winterfell for a prolonged siege with Roose? I don't see that as an option, I think they've showed Stannis sitting around enough. I'm betting that's where Sansa comes in. Not escaping, but somehow opening Winterfell to Stannis.

[Stonehearted Snake]

The thing I'm interested in seeing play out is what does Stannis do if he survives Ramsays SEAL mission?

March to Winterfell for a prolonged siege with Roose? I don't see that as an option, I think they've showed Stannis sitting around enough. I'm betting that's where Sansa comes in. Not escaping, but somehow opening Winterfell to Stannis.

I really want

Battle on the Ice. It's strongly hinted at to occur in TWOW and I think it will look incredible on screen if they do it.

[Stonehearted Snake]

I don't consider it a change at all. I think it's a subtext that was always present in the books.

:agree: It's definitely there in the books too. There are many things in the books that are much more subtle or subtext eg Theon's castration. But Mel is heavily hinting at it in the books too - the show just doesn't have the time to be subtle.

[ambi76]

Love this idea.

Sounds pretty plausible to me too. I for one will be utterly surprised if the show has Stannis prematurely bite it, as I think he actually needs to gain the Iron Throne before being "consumed by flames" whatever that actually means.

[Truly Just Man]

The thing I'm interested in seeing play out is what does Stannis do if he survives Ramsays SEAL mission?

March to Winterfell for a prolonged siege with Roose? I don't see that as an option, I think they've showed Stannis sitting around enough. I'm betting that's where Sansa comes in. Not escaping, but somehow opening Winterfell to Stannis.

What IF Stannis survives Ramsay's SEAL mission? Wow.

It's given He'll be killed by Ramsay and his 20 men, isn't it? I mean that would surely make some sense.

Guys, please.

[idio]

Honestly guys, I think they are pushing the Battle of Ice for the Season 6 opener. They will leave us with the same uncertainty that Dance left us with.

There is too much already going on in Ep10 to fit what many expect to be one of the greatest battles of the entire series, the assault against the loathed Boltons (and in the books, Freys).

Ramsey's asymmetric warfare attempt is to keep us interested, so Season 5 isn't just Stannis marching and we have some actual fighting. It will be the first meeting of Stannis and the Bolton crew, there will be time to sow some very real discord between the two factions. Time to make it personal and to get us salivating even more for what will be a completely epic beginning to Season 6.

[White Harbors Wrath]

What IF Stannis survives Ramsay's SEAL mission? Wow.

It's given He'll be killed by Ramsay and his 20 men, isn't it? I mean that would surely make some sense.

Guys, please.

Have you seen any episodes this season? Sense plays zero part in what goes on.

[Truly Just Man]

Have you seen any episodes this season? Sense plays zero part in what goes on.

Yeah but that would be über nonsense.

Honestly guys, I think they are pushing the Battle of Ice for the Season 6 opener. They will leave us with the same uncertainty that Dance left us with.

There is too much already going on in Ep10 to fit what many expect to be one of the greatest battles of the entire series, the assault against the loathed Boltons (and in the books, Freys).

Ramsey's asymmetric warfare attempt is to keep us interested, so Season 5 isn't just Stannis marching and we have some actual fighting. It will be the first meeting of Stannis and the Bolton crew, there will be time to sow some very real discord between the two factions. Time to make it personal and to get us salivating even more for what will be a completely epic beginning to Season 6.

Agreed.

[jet199]

There's no point having the book battle of ice as there are no Freys and no Manderly. They might as well just have a little skirmish with Ramsey this season which gives him enough cause to go back to Winterfell proclaiming victory.