Lord Damian Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 and who got Ned killed or fought against Robb and uses a blood magic to kill him ..baratheons not dany as for the bolded part can you show me in any of the five books what she intend to do with the straks children ..she was not even the one who uses the term "Usurper's dogs" see how she mentions viserys used to call them and not herself called them like that .. and see when she mentions about the guilty she remembers Hazzea how she takes the blame for her ...after this incident we never hear her speaking about usurpers again until she feels sorry for the way Robert died she refers to the Starks as plural. They are her enemies as the Baratheons, Lannisters etc. Look, Being a polarizing as Dany is, there really seems to be little or no commonground on her. She has dragons. If she can control them, lets revisit her and her attitude at that time of it comes and see what a potential empowering experience that is. Fire and Blood means what it says for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khal drogon Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 she refers to the Starks as plural. They are her enemies as the Baratheons, Lannisters etc. Look, Being a polarizing as Dany is, there really seems to be little or no commonground on her. She has dragons. If she can control them, lets revisit her and her attitude at that time of it comes and see what a potential empowering experience that is. Fire and Blood means what it says for a reason. Which dialogue are you talking about? Show or book? In the books, she calls Starks in plural as usurper dogs because it was Ned, Brandon and Rickard who started the rebellion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Which dialogue are you talking about? Show or book? In the books, she calls Starks in plural as usurper dogs because it was Ned, Brandon and Rickard Aerys who started the rebellion. There fixed that for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Which dialogue are you talking about? Show or book? In the books, she calls Starks in plural as usurper dogs because it was Ned, Brandon and Rickard who started the rebellion. Lets go with book for an example, How did Rickard, Ned and Brandon start the rebellion? Robert too for that matter? She knows her dad did some bad things and earned his name but details matter and that is something even in the show, they have been carefull to not have her learn of them to any extent. She knows of Rheagar taking Lyanna or "that Stark girl" but in the end, she feels that she and her family were wronged, her father was wronged and she wants the Iron throne and make people pay. I will say no more until or unless she learns some more facts and see where it goes from there. At this stage in her characterization, books and show, she strikes me as more trouble than good but with a whole world of potential to be GREAT and LOVED, even by me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facebookless Man Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 I'm afraid all that line meaans is "I'm going to kick all their asses".BADASS AS FUCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drogonthedread Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 look at the quote i gave she never calls starks in the plural its always stark ...and usurpers's dog were robert tywin ned jon arryn and stannis and jamie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Flow Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 I think Dany is the perfect leader. She's pretty, charismatic, has a good name, and more important than anything... she is dumb enough to be easily manipulated. Her 'Break the Wheel' speech is like George W's "They are all gonna hear you soon!" Speech post 911. It was an empty sound bite designed to trick the pudding heads into fist pumping. I think it was great writing because at that moment I realized Dany isn't interviewing Tyrion... it is the other way around and after hearing that, Tyrion probably thought: 'Excellent this one is as dumb as Joffrey but not as sociopathic... I can work with this one." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 I think Dany is the perfect leader. She's pretty, charismatic, has a good name, and more important than anything... she is dumb enough to be easily manipulated. Her 'Break the Wheel' speech is like George W's "They are all gonna hear you soon!" Speech post 911. It was an empty sound bite designed to trick the pudding heads into fist pumping. I think it was great writing because at that moment I realized Dany isn't interviewing Tyrion... it is the other way around and after hearing that, Tyrion probably thought: 'Excellent this one is as dumb as Joffrey but not as sociopathic... I can work with this one." :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drogonthedread Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 she refers to the Starks as plural. They are her enemies as the Baratheons, Lannisters etc. Look, Being a polarizing as Dany is, there really seems to be little or no commonground on her. She has dragons. If she can control them, lets revisit her and her attitude at that time of it comes and see what a potential empowering experience that is. Fire and Blood means what it says for a reason. i dont think revisiting or waiting is really the solution here because you already made a decision that this what she is going to do and bash her for not even doing those things yet can you show me where she mentions starks has plural ..if you refer to the dialogue in the show ...she mentions Targaryen as well so she views herself as an enemy now ...and she mentions the starks after she hears about how they are all gone because of their father how exactly she will fight an enemy who she thinks are gone a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 I have always loved the "usurpers dogs" line. I hope they include that on the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Flow Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 I have always loved the "usurpers dogs" line. I hope they include that on the show. They did... several times during season 1. Viserys I think got it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khal drogon Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Lets go with book for an example, How did Rickard, Ned and Brandon start the rebellion? Robert too for that matter? She knows her dad did some bad things and earned his name but details matter and that is something even in the show, they have been carefull to not have her learn of them to any extent. She knows of Rheagar taking Lyanna or "that Stark girl" but in the end, she feels that she and her family were wronged, her father was wronged and she wants the Iron throne and make people pay. I will say no more until or unless she learns some more facts and see where it goes from there. At this stage in her characterization, books and show, she strikes me as more trouble than good but with a whole world of potential to be GREAT and LOVED, even by me. Okay, in the books, even with her limited knowledge she does not want to take revenge against the children of the rebel leaders. Most of the people who wronged her family are dead except Jaime and Stannis. And it is foreshadowed she will fight against Stannis. She will not punish the remaining kin of the rebels for what the rebels did,both in the books or show. She accepting Tyrion, son of Tywin proves it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannistician Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 and who got Ned killed or fought against Robb and uses a blood magic to kill him ..baratheons not dany Sorry for derailing the thread, but I have to call this out. While I agree Dany was not responsible, you really have to want it in order to believe the Baratheons killed Ned and Robb. We all know Joffrey is not a Baratheon (and I think Dany does as well). Perhaps it was Robert's fault that Ned was in Kingslanding, but his culpability was interrupted by intervening forces - the boar, Cersei, LF, and Joffrey. Robb died because of his own stupidity in a) naming himself a king, and breaking a marriage pact. It was Lannisters, Freys, and Boltons behind Red Wedding. The blood magic thing requires the assumption that it really works and that the Lord of Light is real (I highly doubt it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor's Dragon Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 As far as Dany goes, she is and seems to want to be in Westeros, An Absolute Monarch. All powerful, lords weakend etcc. History shows that the end results are never good under such regimes. Yes, let's lump and dump all of history into one sentence. In fact, let's choose one that's mostly incorrect. Please don't mark me down as pro-monarchy, but powerful central governments have generally been superior to a decentralized feudal system. Feudal states with a weak central government have tended to be plagued by corruption and progress (economically, technologically and socially) slowly or not at all. And what's the part about Dany's desires based on? I'm having a little trouble thinking of any support for that, at all. Dany wants to re-take the Iron Throne, to be sure, but the part about "absolute monarcy," "all powerful," "lord weakened," that comes from where exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor's Dragon Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 She has changed the status Quo in Mereen, now they all hate her. Apparently the only people you're concerned with in Meereen are the slaveholders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libertylanding Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 How do you interpret Daenerys's comment to Tyrion? Is she going to go to Westeros and slaughter every leading noble family? And then perhaps elevate smaller houses that bend to her into their places? How else do you break the wheel? My speculation is that she is thinking that ruling Westeros isn't enough, she needs to change the culture. Just like she needed (needs) to do in Meereen: dethroning the Wise Masters and outlawing chattel slavery did nothing to change the culture that produced chattel slavery in the first place. If she wants her subjects to remain truly free after she departs Slaver's Bay, she needs to change the culture so that it is no longer one in which slavery has a place. My suspicion is she will convene the great games and then, once all the Wise Masters are convened and assembled, she will loose her dragons on them. What she intends to do to Westeros is beyond my ability to fathom, but I suspect it will be similarly radical. Note her objection to the wheel was that it crushed the common people, so presumably she wants a system in which their interests are represented. Will Dany democratize Westeros? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Apparently the only people you're concerned with in Meereen are the slaveholders. That is a low blow and no, I hate the slaveowners to the core but the people who were liberated are structureless and need organization. Very little planning etc. This may be too technical but there is lots to consider when you topple a system overnight and expect everything to be hunky dory. She is cushioned from realities high atop that pyramid on her stone throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 You are conflating results with process. Jon is doing the right things from the narrative perspective. Marching on WF being the right decision is debatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor's Dragon Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 That is a low blow and no, I hate the slaveowners to the core but the people who were liberated are structureless and need organization. Very little planning etc. This may be too technical but there is lots to consider when you topple a system overnight and expect everything to be hunky dory. She is cushioned from realities high atop that pyramid on her stone throne. You did say everybody in Meereen was against Daenerys. So far as I know, only slave-owners are against her, so I don't consider it a low blow, I consider it a straight-up interpretation of what you said. If that's not what you meant, perhaps you should be more precise in your language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clariana Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 What's funny to me is her breaking the wheel and Roose and Ramsay talking about being from the North and being able to withstand a siege is completely insignificant compared to what's going on North of the wall. Which is precisely the point of ASoIaF... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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