Robert was pretty bad..

[The Wolves]

Robert was horrible.

Robert's greatest failure was as a king and that's why I hate him. He took the throne knowing damn well he wasn't fit for it but he took it anyway and neglected it. He holds a lot of responsibility for TWot5Ks and I'm sorry but the argument that he was "depressed" does not matter.

If Robert didn't want to be king than fine don't take the job(it is that easy)name Stannis his heir and be done with it. Don't enjoy the fruits of being King and than do almost nothing in your whole reign but eat, drink, and whore.

[khal drogon]

He wasn't evil in any way.Sorry I forgot that he thought of murdering a child. That incompetent fool did not deserve to be king at all. His only accomplishment is beating Rhaegar and the realm is too big a price for what he achieved. He is down with Aerys in the list of worst kings ever. Its a joke that the rebels fought to put this asshole on the Iron throne.

[khal drogon]

Robert was horrible.

Robert's greatest failure was as a king and that's why I hate him. He took the throne knowing damn well he wasn't fit for it but he took it anyway and neglected it. He holds a lot of responsibility for TWot5Ks and I'm sorry but the argument that he was "depressed" does not matter.

If Robert didn't want to be king than fine don't take the job(it is that easy)name Stannis his heir and be done with it. Don't enjoy the fruits of being King and than do almost nothing in your whole reign but eat, drink, and whore.

I am glad that his progeny will never sit the Iron throne.

[The Wolves]

I am glad that his progeny will never sit the Iron throne.

Yep.

I just hate how people use his "tortured past" to explain away his horrible neglect of his kingdom.

Ned Stark suffered more than Robert ever did yet the man raised 6 great children and ran half the country yet Robert couldn't put aside his selfish needs to do the job he willingly took.

I don't think Robert is oh so evil but his bad qualities overshadow his good ones like nearly all of GRRM's characters

[unitron]

I am glad that his progeny will never sit the Iron throne.

I think they could do, and have done, worse than Gendry.

I'd certainly take him over Jaime's eldest.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I think they could do, and have done, worse than Gendry.

No one knows who Gendry's father is, the only one from Robert's bastards who could take the throne is Edric.

[unitron]

No one knows who Gendry's father is, the only one from Robert's bastards who could take the throne is Edric.

If enough people in Westeros agree that Gendry is Robert's, and that they want another Baratheon on the throne, and that he's the Baratheon that they want, then Gendry could take the throne.

Granted it's a lot more of a long shot than Edric, but Edric's a long shot to begin with.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I don't see why people think that he is bad. He obviously is chronically depressed. He was forced marry a woman he despise, he has a Throne and a job he doesn't want and he has lost the love of his life.

His marriage wasn't going to work, as Cersei admitted that she had sex with Jaime the morning of her wedding. After that he did try to make it work by include her to his trips and to know each other, she denied doing that. Later in life he barely went to her bed and when he did Cersei didn’t wanted to have sex or she finished him off with other ways. That would be a reason why he had so many lovers. Some of them might have their children but since no one came forth to say to him that she had his child how he supposed to know? The way I see it, it would be done by either stalking or a harem. In Medieval society a father doesn’t interact with his children but has to provide them with what they need. Robert did that for his “children” and his bastard.

As for the Kingdom what is better? A king who knows that cannot do it and give the ruling to people who can do it or a King who knows that cannot do it but prefers to play the King and destroy the Kingdom? After all what I have learned in Medieval the role of a king was to give peace to his Kingdom, something that Robert did. On the other hand he had the opportunity to be a bloodthirsty man and kill all the Iron Borns but he chose not to, even when his Stormlanders bannermen betray him he chose to forgive them. Something that means that he isn’t as bloodthirsty as people want to see him. Even Barri told that Robert a good man.

He hate for the Targs and is totally understandable however he proved that he isn’t a bloodthirsty man, if he was Dany and Vis would be dead 15 years ago. Yes he didn’t punished Tywin but I don’t see why he had to done it anyway. Tywin did everything before Robert taking the Throne. Should someone who is crowned to punish all the crimes someone who in the future becomes his bannermen? Should Robb had punished Hoster for putting villages to the sword? Also seeing how the Martells weren’t blaming Robert I don’t see why the others should do the same.

If enough people in Westeros agree that Gendry is Robert's, and that they want another Baratheon on the throne, and that he's the Baratheon that they want, then Gendry could take the throne.

Granted it's a lot more of a long shot than Edric, but Edric's a long shot to begin with.

How exactly they will know that he is his son in the first place? Only Ned, JonA, Stannis and maybe Varys know about his father. Two of them are dead and the other two have their own game. Which means that they wouldn't support a no one with no education, no manners, no support to take the Throne.

[Lord Cadwan]

_{I am not sure you are right in saying no one in Westeros could agree on Gendry being Roberts child. I mean Brienne and Eddard already both did it within one day and Brienne hardly even knew King Robert.}

[Laughing Storm Reborn]

Man, this battle is one i'm tired of fighting, so all i can say is that every fan has the right to think whatever they want about the characters...

You have the author saying he was a good guy... from that, fans can go the way they please

[Dolorous Gabe]

Robert was horrible.

Robert's greatest failure was as a king and that's why I hate him. He took the throne knowing damn well he wasn't fit for it but he took it anyway and neglected it. He holds a lot of responsibility for TWot5Ks and I'm sorry but the argument that he was "depressed" does not matter.

If Robert didn't want to be king than fine don't take the job(it is that easy)name Stannis his heir and be done with it. Don't enjoy the fruits of being King and than do almost nothing in your whole reign but eat, drink, and whore.

This.

He was never a suitable king.

[Dolorous Gabe]

Man, this battle is one i'm tired of fighting, so all i can say is that every fan has the right to think whatever they want about the characters...

You have the author saying he was a good guy... from that, fans can go the way they please

It's interesting though. He said this about a number of his characters. Do you not think the point is that all the characters essentially see themselves as the good guys?

I agree with you though that everyone has a right to their own opinion. And I think GRRM would want it that way.

[Laughing Storm Reborn]

It's interesting though. He said this about a number of his characters. Do you not think the point is that all the characters essentially see themselves as the good guys?

I agree with you though that everyone has a right to their own opinion. And I think GRRM would want it that way.

Of course, they are all grey (the vast majority)... but if we consider Robert a BAD person with grrm's opinion of him in mind, we might aswell think Jon is not that good, or Ned...

[dinner]

Robert wasn't an able administrator nor was he even remotely interested in that. He was a warrior and fighting was all he was interested in; if he couldn't do that then he wanted to drink or screw. If Westeros nobles are anything like European nobles then even talking about money or finances was considered vulgar and the people who did were low born money grubbers in the eyes of the nobility. Of course, this is why the nobles so frequently got into money troubles and eventually the merchants ended up taking over via Parliament.

As for his disregard for women and children, yeah, he was guilty of that. It should be said that was an extremely common trait in European upper classes. As soon as a child was born it would be handed over to a governess and the parents would usually only see it a few times a year. Welcome to the child rearing of the middle ages nobility.

[Beacon]

I used to think Robert was, if not a good guy, at least an OK guy who wanted to be good.

I don't think that anymore. While he's not deliberately evil and spiteful, he was still a pretty bad person. Worse than Jaime, Tyrion, and the Hound, Imo, all three pretty grey characters.

Why do I think this? Several reasons:

1. He approved killing the Targaryen kids. I doubt for practical reasons, like they'd take the throne away some day, but because he just hated the family as a whole. He thought it was fantastic that Aegon and Rhaneys were killed, and the fact that Stannis let Viserys and Dany get away is the reason Stannis never held Storm's End.

2. He was very selfish and uncaring with his mistresses. I don't generally condemn people for their consensual sexual activity, but I do if said activity repeatedly creates children who you don't support. He only supported Edric because he had to, and never made an effort to visit with him, or let him know who his father is. Robert's defenders say that Cersei would kill his kids if he did that, and maybe so. But I'd have to think at some level he didn't really care, and rather would look for another pretty maiden and horn of ale.

3. Was selfish and uncaring family man. I know Cersei would be a pain to be married to, and Joffrey would be an awful kid to have to raise. Yet Robert should have tried to actually parent Joffrey and express an interest in him as the future king, even if he did not like him.

4. My biggest complaint though, is that for 12-15 years Robert Baratheon was the most powerful man in the 7 kingdoms, but as near as I can tell, never used that power for good. There was really so much to do and reform in Westeros, but he was just fine drinking and slobbering around. Though he was the more powerful half of the marriage, he allowed Cersei to use Lannister soldiers/ relatives for most of the royal positions (guards, squires etc.)

I honestly could go on and on about Bobby B. The only reason I think I ever thought of him as a good guy, was because he was Honorable Ned's best friend, and freed Westeros from the mad king. The more I think though, the more I struggle to find anything really redeemable about him. He's basically a developmentally stunted, frat boy. Miley Cyrus would be proud of him.

Does anyone disagree?

1. Tywin had already murdered the Elia and the kids by the time he reached the city. With his army in control of the city, there's no way Bobbie B could have stopped Tywin from doing anything. I don't know where you got the 'fantastic that two babies were killed' part, maybe you found it in a page I forgot to read, but I don't know. He was declared as King by one of Tywin's bannermen (don't remember which one, the one who found Jaime after he killed Aerys2, I think). Stannis holds Dragonstone because there were still some loyal Targaryen bannermen there and Robert sent him there to control.

2. When the one person you love is gone, all other pleasures don't compare. Now mot people would argue that Robert didn't really love Lyanna. But you don't whisper some woman's name while fucking your wife, if you don't love her. He tried to fill the hole left in his heart with ale and women...

3. Now I've gotta disagree with you on this one. Robert was probably gonna groom Joffrey as he got older (15~17 years old). Joffrey was still a kid with completely different interests. He enjoyed killing kitchen cats while Robert enjoyed fucking and drinking. Completely different.

4. The one person who had changed the way Westeros worked was Aegon the Conqueror. And he had dragons on his side. All Robert had was Jon Arryn (since Ned abandoned him).And Jon had to stay in Dorne for a lot of time to calm things down about what happened to Elia. And even then they were plotting to kill Lannister + Baratheons.

As for ruling the seven Kingdoms. Ned had control over the North. Lannister were looking for every opportunity to control him. Tyrells were looking to replace the Lannisters. Martells were probably plotting to kill him and his family for what happened to their sister/nephew/niece. He had control over the Stormlands and Jon Arryn was helping him rule and kept control over the Vale. Hoster could rule the Riverlands.

As long as there was peace, Robert was okay, but still depressed.

I imagine his place as somwhat like what happened to Robb. He was a good warrior/strategist but shit politician/ruler. Things got blown out. And he couldn't stop his bannermen from doing stupid shit.

The only problem that Robb had was that he had no 'Jon Arryn' to guide him...

[Free Northman Reborn]

He was carelessly ineffective as a king. That pretty much sums him up.

Very different from being intentionally malicious or evil.

He did not show his kids (his real kids, being his bastards) the necessary attention and support that a father should. But it seems that when he was with them, he generally was affectionate towards them. Here I refer to one of his bastards distant memory of a big man chucking him/her into the air while generally interacting joyfully and affectionately towards the child.

As for anything he did to Cersei. Who cares. She deserves everything and more that came her way. Because karma.

[BadWo1f]

How is that question relevant?

It is very relevant. It's a lot different than random rape of random girl, if he saw her as his and if by law of that time she is his, that makes huge difference. For example, there was law of first night where Lord can take wife for one night after she is married (or something in those lines), is it rape? Yes. Is it different than randomly going around and rape girls? Yes.

I agree that he was horrible king, good soldier.

[redxavier]

I'm not really sure how he can be called ineffective as a king, when he presided over a period of peace that lasted almost 20 years (Greyjoy rebellion aside). The king before him was so mad he forced his subjects into rebellion and the reigns of the two kings that have followed have been dominated by war. I'd say a big measure of a King's success is a peaceful land and a happy people. So far, his record is comparatively better than any other king we've witnessed. That the people still hold him high regard speaks volumes of how they felt about him as a king. Regardless of his self-destructive tendencies, he kept the seven kingdoms together without offending others left, right and centre (as Cersei does).

Regarding his bastards, I find that Mya's memories reveal a better father than many would give him credit for:

“I remember a man throwing me in the air when I was very little. He stands as tall as the sky, and he throws me up so high it feels as though I’m flying. We’re both
laughing, laughing so much that I can hardly catch a breath, and finally I laugh so hard I wet myself, but that only makes him laugh the louder. I was never afraid when he was throwing me. I knew that he would always be there to catch me.” She pushed her hair back. “Then one day he wasn’t. Men come and go. They lie, or die, or leave you."

I get the impression that Robert would have loved to have stayed with his daughter, but his obligations as King and his bitch of a wife would never have allowed that.

[Lee-Sensei]

I used to think Robert was, if not a good guy, at least an OK guy who wanted to be good.

I don't think that anymore. While he's not deliberately evil and spiteful, he was still a pretty bad person. Worse than Jaime, Tyrion, and the Hound, Imo, all three pretty grey characters.

Why do I think this? Several reasons:

1. He approved killing the Targaryen kids. I doubt for practical reasons, like they'd take the throne away some day, but because he just hated the family as a whole. He thought it was fantastic that Aegon and Rhaneys were killed, and the fact that Stannis let Viserys and Dany get away is the reason Stannis never held Storm's End.

2. He was very selfish and uncaring with his mistresses. I don't generally condemn people for their consensual sexual activity, but I do if said activity repeatedly creates children who you don't support. He only supported Edric because he had to, and never made an effort to visit with him, or let him know who his father is. Robert's defenders say that Cersei would kill his kids if he did that, and maybe so. But I'd have to think at some level he didn't really care, and rather would look for another pretty maiden and horn of ale.

3. Was selfish and uncaring family man. I know Cersei would be a pain to be married to, and Joffrey would be an awful kid to have to raise. Yet Robert should have tried to actually parent Joffrey and express an interest in him as the future king, even if he did not like him.

4. My biggest complaint though, is that for 12-15 years Robert Baratheon was the most powerful man in the 7 kingdoms, but as near as I can tell, never used that power for good. There was really so much to do and reform in Westeros, but he was just fine drinking and slobbering around. Though he was the more powerful half of the marriage, he allowed Cersei to use Lannister soldiers/ relatives for most of the royal positions (guards, squires etc.)

I honestly could go on and on about Bobby B. The only reason I think I ever thought of him as a good guy, was because he was Honorable Ned's best friend, and freed Westeros from the mad king. The more I think though, the more I struggle to find anything really redeemable about him. He's basically a developmentally stunted, frat boy. Miley Cyrus would be proud of him.

Does anyone disagree?

1) He let them live for 15 years and only sent an assassin when they were planning to attack him.

2) Stannis should be grateful for what he was given.

3) Edric knew who his father was and did spend time with Robert.

4) Maybe. However, I doubt Robert shared Joff's proclivity for cutting open pregnant cats.

5) He did crush the Greyjoys.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

_{I am not sure you are right in saying no one in Westeros could agree on Gendry being Roberts child. I mean Brienne and Eddard already both did it within one day and Brienne hardly even knew King Robert.}

What kind of power Brienne has? How she can prove that he is Robert's?