I kind of feel sorry for Mel

[Cas Stark]

Show Mel is a horrible, evil, stupid incompetent woman who enjoys cruelty and killing. She deserves death ASAP.

[Hajk]

One question that always seemed ambiguous to me was: Did she actually have feelings for Stannis? It was never possible to really tell. She was clearly willing to jump Jon Snow as well...

[ummester]

I think you are meant to feel sorry for her in last nights episode - I don't think that changes what she is.

Mel is not the same as Moroaquo, or Throros, or even that girl priestess Tyrion saw. Nor is she the same as Quaithe. She is a combination of them both. She is a Red priestess and Shadowbinder, who I think, quite simply, has confused the shadows with R'hllor.

Also, Stannis may still be Azor Ahai. Mel seeming to think he is not, strongly suggests that he is now :D

[acosta]

I think she was completely convinced until half the army deserts with all the horses and Selyse kills herself and she realizes a king's blood sacrifice should have done a lot better than that and Stannis can't be a true king.

[Hajk]

I think she was completely convinced until half the army deserts with all the horses and Selyse kills herself and she realizes a king's blood sacrifice should have done a lot better than that and Stannis can't be a true king.

This is actually quite an interesting take.

What would it take for the sacrifice to work? Can it show that someone is not a true king? What re the criterion for it? It seems that Robert was clearly a king. How far and wide does the kings claim have to be acknowledged?

Also, how was Stannis able to sire that shadow if he isn't a king and why didn't she realize it? Or was he significant enough to be a king then but not now?

[ummester]

This is actually quite an interesting take.

What would it take for the sacrifice to work? Can it show that someone is not a true king? What re the criterion for it? It seems that Robert was clearly a king. How far and wide does the kings claim have to be acknowledged?

Also, how was Stannis able to sire that shadow if he isn't a king and why didn't she realize it? Or was he significant enough to be a king then but not now?

See, all of this is why it logically makes more sense that it is about Mel, and whatever is controlling her mind and body, than anything else.

If Stannis isn't a true king, why did the weather spell actually work?

Mel either:

1) Has no fucking idea what she is doing

2) Is under control of something that is just using her as a means to an end

[Night'sQueen]

What I'm wondering is if Mel is really going to break like this in the next book.

[Hoo]

It's obvious the sacrifice did not work, and she realized it. But Stannis was intent on moving on Winterfell. She knew Stannis would not change his mind. She wasn't going to stick around. She bailed. Their paths diverged at that point, forever.

[ummester]

It's obvious the sacrifice did not work, and she realized it. But Stannis was intent on moving on Winterfell. She knew Stannis would not change his mind. She wasn't going to stick around. She bailed. Their paths diverged at that point, forever.

So what melted the ice?

[Hoo]

So what melted the ice?

Nature. Fake sign. They thought that was the sign, but it turned out overall sacrifice did not work. In the tent, Stannis told her he is moving forward with the attack. As they came out of the tent, there was a barrage of bad news. She realized it at that moment. Turns out she was right. Stannis moved forward with the attack, he was intent on acting it out in spite of the signs.

[ummester]

Nature. Fake sign. They thought that was the sign, but it turned out overall sacrifice did not work. In the tent, Stannis told her he is moving forward with the attack. As they came out of the tent, there was a barrage of bad news. She realized it at that moment. Turns out she was right. Stannis moved forward with the attack, he was intent on acting it out in spite of the signs.

Perhaps - but it's not generally the way GoTs/ASoIaF storytelling works. It's the little sign that matters and the blatant things that are false. It's an entire saga built on cynicism, irony and misdirection. It's why my money is actually on Stannis being Azor Ahai ATM :)

[Hoo]

In the tent, she tells Stannis, she sees Bolton banners in flames. When they walked out of the tent, they received bad news. She lowers hear head. Next thing, she is seen riding out of camp, bailing. Bad news is the pivotal moment.

[calo760]

The fact that Melisandre didn't die in the finale seems like she is still essential to the story. We also saw a red priestess praising Danaerys Targaryen as The Lord of Lights Chosen when Tyrion and Jorah arrive in Volantis, so maybe Mel will join Dany? Pretty pointless to have added that scene if t doesn't lead to something. Also I think the ice melting and viewers not actually seeing Stannis die or his body afterwards may be important as well. Not to mention all of the red god magic we have seen throughout the series. Maybe Mel is the evil god's version of Azor Ahai and her entire plan has been to decimate Westeros

[Starks of Winter]

I would feel sorry for Stannis in place of her. She still found Azor Ahai, she just does not realize it yet. It seems R'hllor just used Stannis as a pawn to get his priestess to the right place, at the right time.

:agree:

[GeorgeIAF]

I think she suspected all along that Jon Snow might be AA, there are alot the hints that lead to this both in the books and on the show. But because of her being so attached to Stannis, she blindly dismissed this possibility, but in the end, she figured it out so she chose to abandon Stannis and reach the real PTWP.

[Mithras]

I think Mel in the books had the agenda to force Stannis to make such a sacrifice right from the beginning. She always thought that AAR would eventually have to sacrifice his own blood (Edric first and if not, Shireen in the end). She has been just bidding her time. I think Mel did her best to make sure that Stannis got defeated at Blackwater which would ensure that he would be in a proper mood to say yes to the sacrifice of Edric. The primary reason why Stannis was devastated at Blackwater is that his fleet came much later than the land army and on the way, the fleet suffered heavy losses. All of these were due to the terrible storms which I think Mel summoned by burning the heart tree of Storm’s End.

[Faint]

Honestly, the evidence is threadbare as to Melisandre having any kind of inkling that Jon is Azor Ahai, both in the text and on the show. We have her point-of-view in the books and, at least during that chapter, she is still unaware. Carice, meanwhile, says her slow switch in allegiance to Jon is only subconscious at this point.

[ricardoromell]

Possible Spoilers may follow

Something tells me that Mel will doubt her faith over time. "all i see is snow" and now jon snow's dead. Basically all she did, failed. Her Lord of the light Azhor Ahai prophecy failed.

She will doubt her faith even more once she sees the power of the Old gods, BR & Bran and the COTF.
I get the feeling that Jon will be resurrected by the Walkers only to command the army of the dead till they reach Winterfell and at the heart tree Bran and the COTF work magic and break the mind control of the Night's king. It shows a lil more depth in story than a simple resurrection.

[Lord Varys]

The idea that neither Stannis nor Melisandre apparently ever thought what impact it would have on the morale of the soldiers to burn the king's only child alive to change the weather is beyond me. I mean, nobody would follow such a man or condone his actions. If you have at least a sense of realism in the whole show.

This is exactly why I think Stannis himself has to be the one who comes up with the Shireen sacrifice idea in the books or else it will not work at all. After all, pretty much everyone daring to push Stannis into doing that should know better. He is not the kind of man who forgets hidden or open threats to himself or his family, nor is he the forgiving type. Every moron stupid enough to echo or say 'His Grace should sacrifice his only child and heir to accomplish this or that' would realistically greatly increase the chances that he himself would end up on the pyre. And that should actually include Melisandre herself if she comes up with that idea as long as it is not pretty obvious that they as well as all the people in Westeros are certainly about to die any minute now.

Mithras,

there is no reason to believe that anything you say is true. Mel seems to believe that the reborn Azor Ahai is supposed to wake dragons from stone. That's what she intends to accomplish with the Edric sacrifice on Dragonstone. Without dragon eggs or dragon statues she thinks she can bring to life there is no reason for her to push into doing that. Not to mention that the books actually never had her never suggesting that Shireen should be sacrificed. That doesn't mean she won't come up with that idea in the future but I doubt that it is going to happen soon.

Mel had no reason whatsoever to sabotage Stannis' efforts at the Blackwater. After all, he could have died there, could he not?

[jbob]

See, all of this is why it logically makes more sense that it is about Mel, and whatever is controlling her mind and body, than anything else.

If Stannis isn't a true king, why did the weather spell actually work?

Mel either:

1) Has no fucking idea what she is doing

2) Is under control of something that is just using her as a means to an end

Some of ideas:

That the Lord of Light will give you a gift. But he isn't necessarily on your side. I mean. Moqorro burns people to gain favourable wins and it works. I don't think Victarion is Azor Ahai. And Mel does the same. R'hllor fixed the weather for them in exchange for Shireen, but that's it. It worked for the same reason every other sacrifice works.

I'd reckon most of Mel's visions are actually warnings more than guides. Like, "don't do what you're thinking of doing because this is what's going to happen," Or, "you don't need to do this because he'll take the Winterfell."

The spell actually worked but it wasn't for him. The conditions were created for the real Azor Ahai. Perhaps Shireen's death is like the leeches except it created the conditions for Jon to return to be able to leave the NW. Sansa escaping. Stannis being wiped out to allow Jon Snow to retake the north himself.