Sci-2 Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 You're too optimistic. Humanity is crap. Well I suspect not many people are going to keep shelling out over $40 to play the Sad Puppies game. I think they'll try again next year and if they lose again (save for Marvel blockbusters lol) the whole thing will be dismantled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Sealions, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serdog Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Vox Day Teddy Beale has claimed victory http://voxday.blogspot.ca/2015/08/hugo-2015-results.html No doubt George Martin, John Scalzi, David Gerrold, The Guardian, and the rest of the SJWs will try to portray this as a resounding defeat for us, but keep this in mind: the side that resorts to a scorched earth strategy is the one that is losing and in retreat. All they have accomplished is to convert many Sad Puppies into Rabid Puppies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Vox Day Teddy Beale has claimed victory He was going to claim victory no matter what, he said as much months ago. Dude is such a child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seli Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I'm not sure every person who supported Sad Puppies was simply a bigot, or even understood what was going on other than "something something fight SJWs!!!!!". I think a few SF sites covering the rotten core of the Sad Puppies might help ensure their base is whittled down next year rather than enlarged. The whole "something something fight SJWs!!!!" movement is inherently bigoted, if people can't see that and think it is a good idea they have some issues to start with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 'No doubt people will try to claim that this resounding defeat was a resounding defeat. [i]Fools![/i]' Yeah, typical Vox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I am reading the PDF with all the nominations and it's quite annoying to see so much good stuff in the position 6-10 (or 8-12 in category with more than 5 Puppy nominees in the two slates) which missed on a nomination because of these childish fools: City of Stairs, Jackalope Wives, The Grand Jete, The Mothers of Voorhisville, When It Ends, He Catches Her, etc. www.thehugoawards.org/content/pdf/2015HugoStatistics.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I thought scorched earth was what Henri V did when he invaded France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seli Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Is the excitement over? Has the political statement been made? Will GRRM now turn his attention to better things? 5 years from now, will anyone still care that a bunch of bad fiction beat out another bunch of bad fiction? Next on my reading list: The Phantom Ship (1839), by Fredrick Marryat. Dunno if it's good, but old books are better bets than Hugo winners, in my limited Hugo experience. No the excitement isn't over, the nominating process is still vulnerable to the same slate-voting that created this year's mess, especially when if the number of nominators cannot be increased. And given that even now, with all the attention, only half (?) of the eligible voters actually voted for the Hugo that seems something difficult to achieve. Here is an initial analysis which gives some rough estimates about numbers involved in the voting process https://chaoshorizon.wordpress.com/2015/08/23/2015-hugo-stats-initial-analysis/ . Some percentages (estimates, not precise): No Awarders: 3500 / 5950 = 59% Neutrals: 1400 / 5950 = 22% Rabid Puppies = 10% Sad Puppies = 9% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 No the excitement isn't over, the nominating process is still vulnerable to the same slate-voting that created this year's mess, especially when if the number of nominators cannot be increased. Well then, hyperventilate away! But the Hugo's have always been a political process and always will be a political process. It always has been subject to manipulation and always will be subject to manipulation. Hugo winners always have been crap and always will be crap; with maybe an exception here and there. (Admittedly, DUNE was rather enjoyable.) And voting as flag-waving will always be simpler and easier and attract more votes than thoughtful reading, appreciation and judgment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Also: who in their right mind is going to want to be on any future Rabid Puppy slate, if Day is telling the truth (and he lies all the time, so there's no reason to think he is) about wanting to 'burn down' the awards? Hey guys, want to be on our slate? The idea is, we nominate you, then you get to be publicly embarrassed by finishing beneath No Award. Sounds like fun times, right? Guys? Guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Also: who in their right mind is going to want to be on any future Rabid Puppy slate, if Day is telling the truth (and he lies all the time, so there's no reason to think he is) about wanting to 'burn down' the awards? Hey guys, want to be on our slate? The idea is, we nominate you, then you get to be publicly embarrassed by finishing beneath No Award. Sounds like fun times, right? Guys? Guys? But...but...finishing below "No Award" is actually a win, so it's great to be in this position, right? Frankly, there are quite a few of the Puppies who are dumb/ideologically obsessed enough to buy this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seli Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Well then, hyperventilate away! But the Hugo's have always been a political process and always will be a political process. It always has been subject to manipulation and always will be subject to manipulation. Hugo winners always have been crap and always will be crap; with maybe an exception here and there. (Admittedly, DUNE was rather enjoyable.) And voting as flag-waving will always be simpler and easier and attract more votes than thoughtful reading, appreciation and judgment. Why hyperventilate? Even this year we have some great winners in eg Galactic Suburbia, Julie Dillon, Cixin Liu, all people who could have won easily in a normal year. And while it is of course a popular award at its core it is not like the Hugo is the only award around, with some of the other ones (Tiptree for example) better suited for thoughtful reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Brad Torgersen from two days ago: Speaking personally, I am definitely rooting for people to take home trophies. Especially some of my professional associates who have labored long and hard in this industry for many, many years, and who finally got their shot at the award because more fans decided to put their money where their mouths were. I guess he didn't get the Vox memo that the goal was to get "No Award" result in time. He wanted his buddies to win, poor sap, he might even have thought they have a chance... BTW, speaking of Torgersen, if anyone here still takes him remotely seriously, this should change that - http://accordingtohoyt.com/2015/08/13/ca-ira/#comment-294505. So, the field is essentially returning to its Marxist roots. But the starry-eyedness is mostly gone. Now we’re down to the raw hate of the thing: the vengeance-minded outliers and weirdos, determined to punish wrongdoing and wrongthinking and wrongfeeling. Which means, of course, smoking out all the wrongfans having all the wrongfun with their wrongstuff. If they could clap us in shackles, put us into the boxcars, and send us to the icy wastes to die, they would do it in a heartbeat. What a buffoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 But...but...finishing below "No Award" is actually a win, so it's great to be in this position, right? In the long run, it may not make a difference. I like Jack Vance, and it's nice that the Hugos recognized him a couple of times, but I doubt that in the long run his Hugo wins will be what he is remembered for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinDonner Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 So the Hugos are simultaneously so irrelevant that no-one really cares who wins, and yet also important enough to expend large amounts of effort and $$ to try and win/rig/break? Got it. eta: :lmao: at Torgerson. Dear lord, I really do hope this just turns out to be elaborate performance art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squab Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 So the Hugos are simultaneously so irrelevant that no-one really cares who wins, and yet also important enough to expend large amounts of effort and $$ to try and win/rig/break? Got it. I think they were trying to make them less political by showing everyone how political they are. I figure its obvious how political they are but i dont think they will change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I think they were trying to make them less political by showing everyone how political they are. Whatever they were [i]trying[/i] to do, both Puppies campaigns only succeeded in making the awards this year a hundred times as political as they ever had been in the past. There's an element of politics to any award: it would be naive to deny that. But the Hugos, prior to this year, were no better and no worse than any other in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 So the Hugos are simultaneously so irrelevant that no-one really cares who wins, and yet also important enough to expend large amounts of effort and $$ to try and win/rig/break? Got it. Lots of people care who wins. It's publicity. It's publicity for the winners. And yes, it's publicity for the Puppies too. Movie studies care about the Oscars. Because it's good advertising. But why should I care? I'm only a customer looking for good stuff to read or watch, and I have long since reconciled myself to the fact that a list of awards winners is the last place I should look. It is relevant to me in the same sense that a large advertising budget is relevant to me ... as an unreliable influence that I probably ought to resist. I tried to care a little about this Hugo drama because poor George and everyone else was getting so excited about it. But stuff that sucks getting awards is old news to me. I even tried some of the Puppies' stuff. It bored me. Alot of people are dissatisfied with the Hugos because they tend to suck. The Puppies tried to tap in to this dissatisfaction, from a right-wing perspective, in order to promote another bunch of fiction that also tends to suck. It's a lose-lose situation from my perspective, because it's distracting me from better stuff that I could be reading instead, but I'm sure both the Puppies and the Hugo winners are boosting their sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squab Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Whatever they were trying to do, both Puppies campaigns only succeeded in making the awards this year a hundred times as political as they ever had been in the past. There's an element of politics to any award: it would be naive to deny that. But the Hugos, prior to this year, were no better and no worse than any other in that regard. you're right that they made this one more political. Previously, it was political enough for the puppies fiasco to start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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