Characters you just DO NOT understand people like

[BrandonStark's bastard]

Tyrion

Jaime

House Greyjoy

Littlefinger

Renly

Rhaegar

[kimim]

tbh I'm not surprised at people liking anyone. It's a work of fiction, not real life. Two of my favorite characters are Tywin and LF, not because they're good and virtuous, but because they're well done, fun to read, etc. I can see Ramsay having fans, as he's a great psycho. Roose is a great villain, too.

I go back and forth between wanting to kick Dany and being bored by her, but, again, I totally get why people would love her, and ditto for Jon, etc. I guess I have a harder time understanding Areo Hotah fans, but it's all so subjective that it really can't be questioned.

[Donaldys I Trumpagar]

A related topic: of the characters portrayed both in the show and the books, what of the two portrayals are better?

Two that I have in mind are Brienne and Jorah -- for me, show!Jorah is better than book!Jorah, while book!Brienne is better than show!Brienne.

[King Brandon Ice Eyes]

I think Walder Frey is a better character than Roose tbh. I mean Roose looks like a vampire, is fond of leeches, has a flayed man as his Sigil, and lives in a place called the Dreadfort ffs. And people whine about Dany's "cartoon mustache twirling villains". :rolleyes:

Roose has memorable dialogues with Jaime and Theon. He has a dark sense of humor, he is competent, scary but not infallible and he expresses certain fondness for Domeric. He is not by any means a bland villain like some of the non entities Dany faces and the leeches thing actually makes sense from his perspective.

To say the Boltons are bad because GRRM may have drawn inspiration from horror characters to create them is the same as to disregard the Targaryen as ridiculous elves. Fantasy elements are fine but horror tropes are silly? How does that work?

The Boltons have a dark history but they seem to have maintained acceptable habits for the general public in recent history. Roose and Ramsay are awful because it makes a better story to make the members of the house with the flayed man sigil terrifying villains instead of throwaway characters.

[INCBlackbird]

This is getting too personal. I had some "great" experiences with abuse and violence myself and thats the reason why I choose to avoid it. If you choose another path for you, thats perfectly fine. You don't have to justify your choice here at all, so please don't. It doesn' convince the others but leads to rather personal and inappropriate off-topic discussions (and I include all the others diving too deep into this, too)

I think everyone should be able to be fascinated with whatever they're fascinated (especially cause it's something we can't even control) and to cope with abuse however they want to without being judged by someone that doesn't even know them. I respect that you cope differently and that you are interested in different things I just ask you (and others) to grant me the same respect (but I don't think it's something I should have to ask in the first place)

[TheOne-EyedHound]

How can you not like Roose or Ramsay as a character? They are some badass villains couldn't have asked for a better ones.

[LordStoneheart]

How can you not like Roose or Ramsay as a character? They are some badass villains couldn't have asked for a better ones.

Because, as I mentioned up thread, they have less depth than a kiddie pool. There's nothing to Roose besides his creep factor, which is overblown in my eyes, and Ramsay's characterization begins and ends with "psycho killer." The other villains of the series have layers to them.

[INCBlackbird]

Because, as I mentioned up thread, they have less depth than a kiddie pool. There's nothing to Roose besides his creep factor, which is overblown in my eyes, and Ramsay's characterization begins and ends with "psycho killer." The other villains of the series have layers to them.

So just because you say they don't have depth, because you can't/don't want to see it I guess, means that they have no depth? your opinion is fact?

I for one think Ramsay has way more depth then people give him credit for, i've written a lot about it before so if you want to I could explain, but considering that I have before you've just ignored it I'm not gonna bother.

[Nihlus]

Oberyn. His screen time consists of: murdering some dude, slapping a prostitute, taking her baby, mocking a guy for his disability, challenging a much better warrior to a duel, losing horribly, and dying. There's not a lot for me to like there. I'd have been rooting for his death if his opponent was anyone other than Gregor.

[falcotron]

A related topic: of the characters portrayed both in the show and the books, what of the two portrayals are better?

Two that I have in mind are Brienne and Jorah -- for me, show!Jorah is better than book!Jorah, while book!Brienne is better than show!Brienne.

I'm not sure this topic belongs in this thread, or even in the novels section, but...

GRRM has pointed out the ways Margy and Osha are much more fleshed out in the show, while Littlefinger is much more one-dimensional. I think most of the important differences fall into those categories (and more in the latter than the former).

But there are also a few characters who are pretty shallow in both the books and the show, who get a lot more screen-time on TV, which is a waste of time. Daario is an obvious example here.

And there are a few characters they've tried to add depth to and just did a bad job, but I feel like any example I give here would be more controversial than any of the ones listed above.

Also, in some cases, the writing stripped away more than they should have, but the actor does such a great job that it's hard to say whether the end result is better or worse. This is where I'd personally put both Jorah and Brienne.

[The Wolves]

How can you not like Roose or Ramsay as a character? They are some badass villains couldn't have asked for a better ones.

Because they're boring, contrived and so unoriginal.

Roose's goal has been what nearly every Bolton has been trying to do for thousands of years kill Starks and take over the north, seriously how boring is that?

And Ramsey is a fecking cartoon and not a entertaining one either.

[Davos is King]

Oh, yeah. Seconded.

Do you have any salted popcorn by chance?

Heresy! BLASPHEMER! :P

[NorthGirl]

Ramsay Snow fans perplex me

Wait...What!?!?!?!

The only person I can not understand others liking is Jorah. Everyone else I can make some case for it but him...

ETA: for coherence's sake I should add that since I love the character of Roose Bolton, I can sort of imagine someone out there in the world liking Ramsay as a character. Being a fan though... They should have that checked, JUST KIDDING!!!!!!

[rayarts]

I think everyone should be able to be fascinated with whatever they're fascinated (especially cause it's something we can't even control) and to cope with abuse however they want to without being judged by someone that doesn't even know them. I respect that you cope differently and that you are interested in different things I just ask you (and others) to grant me the same respect (but I don't think it's something I should have to ask in the first place)

Yes. And so I said. Everyone has their own likings and copings and whatever and thats just fine. Please don't feel offended by whatever anyone says

[rayarts]

Oh this thread's going to end well. *starts cooking popcorn*

I like where it went so far. Its still not closed at least... hehe

[INCBlackbird]

Yes. And so I said. Everyone has their own likings and copings and whatever and thats just fine. Please don't feel offended by whatever anyone says

I noticed that I confused your post with someone else' who was all like "i'm trying so hard not to judge" (but clearly they were) so yeah sorry for going all off on you. I've had to justify myself to other people for years already and a lot of people keep assuming things about me that aren't true and after a while it gets really frustrating.

[LordStoneheart]

So just because you say they don't have depth, because you can't/don't want to see it I guess, means that they have no depth? your opinion is fact?

I for one think Ramsay has way more depth then people give him credit for, i've written a lot about it before so if you want to I could explain, but considering that I have before you've just ignored it I'm not gonna bother.

Actually, I didn't ignore it. I saw how contrived and forced it was. You really have to reach the bottom of the barrel and assume a lot of things to make Ramsay seem like anything more than a cardboard bad guy. Not every character GRRM wrote is deep and there is nothing wrong with that. Adding hidden depth to a character whose only role is torturer, murderer, and rapist is a waste of time in my eyes. And there's no need for depth anyway because everything he's done has been evil, as close to evil as this series will get (other than the Others). There's no coming back for him, no redemption, no justification, no defense. Unless you're a sadist, I guess. I've seen people write about Gregor Clegane kidnapping fantasies, so I guess nothing is off-limits with romanticizing the villains.

[The Marquis de Leech]

why would you assume it's 16 year old girls? have you ever been in the fandom and looked at the stuff thramsay fans post? I've been in the thramsay fandom for 3 years now. i'm a 24 year old girl, most of the people in the thramsay fandom are my age or older and we embrace the darkness of their relationship, we don't like thramsay in a romantic way (if we would be interested in romantic guy on guy we wouldn't be into thramsay) not to mention that I for example, never "shipped" anything, I couldn't care less who wants to fuck who and how romantic all of that is, i've always kinda hated that stuff (though tried to respect that other people do like it) and I don't even read thramsay fanfiction, I also couldn't care less whether or not their relationship is sexual or not. The only thing I care about is the complexity of it. The fact that Ramsay is completely obsessed with Theon and tortures him in order to break him and force another identity on him. especially in relation to Theon's already exisiting identity crisis. I have probably more then 50 essays written on Theon, sometimes in relation to Ramsay sometimes other things about his arc, I also wrote a 120 page book on Theon (that I'm revising at the moment). I'd also like to mention that A LOT of thramsay fans (myself included) are victims of abuse ourselves. So please don't lump us along the horny 16 year old teenagers who ship two male characters; it's very different from what thramsay really is. I've been in the fandom for years I know, clearly you don't.

I would be seriously interested in reading that.

Anyway, tastes differ. Roose Bolton has always been a favourite of mine, for instance, which has put me outside the mainstream. I also hate Jon Snow, but I can understand why people like him. I've never seen anyone championing Craster, Gregor Clegane, or Joffrey, but if someone likes those characters, good on them.

[Ser Brandon Badwater]

Actually, I didn't ignore it. I saw how contrived and forced it was. You really have to reach the bottom of the barrel and assume a lot of things to make Ramsay seem like anything more than a cardboard bad guy. Not every character GRRM wrote is deep and there is nothing wrong with that. Adding hidden depth to a character whose only role is torturer, murderer, and rapist is a waste of time in my eyes. And there's no need for depth anyway because everything he's done has been evil, as close to evil as this series will get (other than the Others). There's no coming back for him, no redemption, no justification, no defense. Unless you're a sadist, I guess. I've seen people write about Gregor Clegane kidnapping fantasies, so I guess nothing is off-limits with romanticizing the villains.

Actually i`d consider his actions way more evil than The Others. He grew up around people and saw the good and bad people do to each other, and probably received some love. The Others though are not human and probably see humans as lesser beings, therefore their actions aren`t evil as such

[A Bastard Snow]

I would be seriously interested in reading that.

Anyway, tastes differ. Roose Bolton has always been a favourite of mine, for instance, which has put me outside the mainstream. I also hate Jon Snow, but I can understand why people like him. I've never seen anyone championing Craster, Gregor Clegane, or Joffrey, but if someone likes those characters, good on them.

Is Snowflake mainstream now?Cause I used to be in the minority of liking him.I imagine it might be because of the show now?