Rhaegar is a bad person

[Fire Eater]

Where does that come from?

by-the-by that is a king not a lord... the king's son ran away and was married without his father's consent...

Great example if Lyanna and Rhaegar were Aerys's children and Rhaegar had not yet been married.

It comes from WOIAF

Rhaegar is Aerys's child, and Aegon I provides precedent for polygamy.

Yeah, but they were 14&15. Rhagear was 22 and Lyanna was 15.

This is the same society where it is considered acceptable for 16 year-old girl to marry Lyn Corbray who is around three times her age.

[stateofdissipation]

It comes from WOIAF

Rhaegar is Aerys's child, and Aegon I provides precedent for polygamy.

This is the same society where it is considered acceptable for 16 year-old girl to marry Lyn Corbray who is around three times her age.

Aegon wed his sisters in a ceremony performed by their mother. This was before the seven kingdoms existed.

Maegor was exiled for polygamy. He returned following his brother's death and took the throne by force. He waged war on the faith of the seven until his death.

Jaehaerys ended the war his uncle started by agreeing that the Iron Throne would always support the faith of the seven....

There was no polygamy following that agreement.

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

I cannot for the life of me figure out why there is so much butthurt, vitriol, and overall nastiness to each other in this thread. This is especially extended to the anti-Rhaegar folks.

We get it. You hate Rhaegar (for some strange reason). But it looks silly. The reader doesn't even have enough information about the character to come up with all these wild accusations.

The angry, anti-Rhaegar fervor is bizzare.

I thought by now that it was obvious that Rhaegar was painted an asshole in the first novels for a reason. Think about who initially talked so terribly about him. The reader is then given hints that Rhaegar was not the scumbag rapist that we were initially led to believe that he was.

Isn't that obvious? I know that isn't something that GRRM did without reason.

I used to despise Rhaegar too. But if you keep reading and pick up what GRRM is putting down you should be figuring out that he wasn't a demon.

The OP has a bee in his bonnet about Rhaegar Targaryen. After trying to engage, I've taken to ignoring him.

My suspicion is that only new canon will appease the anti-Rhaegar squad (who tend to be anti-Targ in general), and perhaps not even then. Before the release of TWOIAF, we kept hearing all about about irresponsible Rhaegar was to leave his wife and children in the RK with an acknowledged mad Aerys. Now it's "well, he should have sent them to Dorne." The bar keeps moving and I don't expect that to change anytime soon, even if Rhaegar's choices and actions led to stopping the LN from happening.

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

It comes from WOIAF

Rhaegar is Aerys's child, and Aegon I provides precedent for polygamy.

This is the same society where it is considered acceptable for 16 year-old girl to marry Lyn Corbray who is around three times her age.

:agree: It's as if TWOIAF isn't actual canon in the ToH/RR generational threads.

Also, certain posters' selective enforcing of our norms vs. Westerosi norms in these threads is priceless.

[Blackfish Tully]

The "He was trying to concieve tptwp" argument doesn't really work since Rhaegar thought he had allready concieved tptwp (in the form of Aegon), Jon was only supposed to be a third head, (there must be one more).

And I doubt he needed Lyanna for that, he could have picked any other woman. He was very stupid in picking Lyanna.

Considering the fact that you have no idea what the prophecy or prophecies are which you don't because none of us do then you have zero idea what Rhaegar was doing when he picked out Lyanna and I'm pretty sure he did not pick her at random. Fire and Ice = Targaryen and Stark would have been a pretty powerful force that would have convinced him that he needed her to fulfill some prophecy.

I'm not saying he was right but to think he randomly picked out pretty much the worst girl to kidnap in the whole kingdom defies logic.

[Dorian Martell]

:agree: It's as if TWOIAF isn't actual canon in the ToH/RR generational threads.

Also, certain posters' selective enforcing of our norms vs. Westerosi norms in these threads is priceless.

Also, the emotional investment/attachment that people have to purely literary characters that do not even appear in the story is also priceless

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

Also, the emotional investment/attachment that people have to purely literary characters that do not even appear in the story is also priceless

Are you serious? Rhaegar is perhaps the most important character who is dead before the series begins. There's no problem with being invested, because several major POV characters are invested in his legacy.

[WSmith84]

The OP has a bee in his bonnet about Rhaegar Targaryen. After trying to engage, I've taken to ignoring him.

My suspicion is that only new canon will appease the anti-Rhaegar squad (who tend to be anti-Targ in general), and perhaps not even then. Before the release of TWOIAF, we kept hearing all about about irresponsible Rhaegar was to leave his wife and children in the RK with an acknowledged mad Aerys. Now it's "well, he should have sent them to Dorne." The bar keeps moving and I don't expect that to change anytime soon, even if Rhaegar's choices and actions led to stopping the LN from happening.

Well Rhaegar still is guilty of leaving his wife and children in KL with his mad father. It's just that now he's only guilty of doing it when he left KL to lead the Royal army, as opposed to before when people thought that he did it when he ran off with Lyanna as well. It's still a very irresponsible thing to do; it's just his motive that I wish to know. Was he too foolish to realise that his father might be a danger to them, and that the rebels were sure to head to KL if they were victorious against him? Did he leave them there as a threat against the Dornish to ensure their support? Or was it as a crutch for his father? None of them are great reasons, but I suppose the second at least has some pragmatism about it.

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

I' m not a Rhaegar fan boy and I will not talk about whether Lyanna was kidnapped or did she run off with him .

Most of the love for Rhaegar comes from the Crownlands and the Riverlands traditionally Targaryen allies and they have a romantic view of him and of R+L,they don't think of R+E&L or that Rhaegar could have bastard .

[jobmartell]

The prophesy did not say Lyanna Stark.

Though blaming prophesies for cheating on your wife with teenage girls is genius.

Ha! Someone should of told Big Bobby B this. (but not that it was Rhaegars idea first of course)

[BlackFyre > BlackFire]

The OP get's into some issues I have with reviews of the show. You are making judgements based on "our" world and what is and is not considered "good" behavior. By your reasoning you can say that Ned was a bad guy. After all he cut off a dude's head with no trial and then got his own head curt off because of his "honor" with no thought for what that would mean for his family (remember Robb is only like 14 I think when he takes over as head of house Stark and goes to war) not to mention the effect on all the people who depend on house Stark for protection and survival in the north. If you apply the judgement's and reasoning of today then pretty much no one in these books are "good." I know it's a fictional world, but it's based on a certain time period in our history and actions have to be judged according to what is and isn't considered ok in that time period, as well in the fictional contraints the author creates for his world. That being said IF you could prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Rheagar did abduct and rape Lyanna then he is a pretty bad dude. My personal impression is that GRRM set's it up so that our initial impression of Rheagar is that he is another horrible Targaryen, but as events unfold and new information is presented we see that our initial impression is false. He does that a lot.

[jobmartell]

I cannot for the life of me figure out why there is so much butthurt, vitriol, and overall nastiness to each other in this thread. This is especially extended to the anti-Rhaegar folks.

We get it. You hate Rhaegar (for some strange reason). But it looks silly. The reader doesn't even have enough information about the character to come up with all these wild accusations.

The angry, anti-Rhaegar fervor is bizzare.

I thought by now that it was obvious that Rhaegar was painted an asshole in the first novels for a reason. Think about who initially talked so terribly about him. The reader is then given hints that Rhaegar was not the scumbag rapist that we were initially led to believe that he was.

Isn't that obvious? I know that isn't something that GRRM did without reason.

I used to despise Rhaegar too. But if you keep reading and pick up what GRRM is putting down you should be figuring out that he wasn't a demon.

The harp. People hate the harp in the anti Rhaegar fan club.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Considering the fact that you have no idea what the prophecy or prophecies are which you don't because none of us do then you have zero idea what Rhaegar was doing when he picked out Lyanna and I'm pretty sure he did not pick her at random. Fire and Ice = Targaryen and Stark would have been a pretty powerful force that would have convinced him that he needed her to fulfill some prophecy.

I'm not saying he was right but to think he randomly picked out pretty much the worst girl to kidnap in the whole kingdom defies logic.

He picked her because he took a fancy to her at the Tourney of Harrnehal before Aegon was born and before he found out that Elia was unlikley to have any more children.

If Fire and Ice is important why was he convinced that a Dornish woman was OK and it's not like Lyanna is the only woman from the North. And that is ignoring the fact that he ignored diplomacy. he could have made a case to her father, his father and Robert. Instead he 'kidnapped' her and caused a shitstom.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

The harp. People hate the harp in the anti Rhaegar fan club.

The harp is hilarious. Ned wanting to keep Jon's birth a secret carries Rhaeagrs harp thousands of miles and to Winterfell, even allows Robert (and others) into the tomb. Seems likely.

I'm not even sure how is is evidence anyway. Rhaegar died 20 years ago, most of his social circle are dead. To everyone else it is just a harp.

[Adaneth]

Let me put it differently. His actions with Lyanna was the first and largest step in the souring of some of the highlords towards the Targaryen dynasty. That souring eventually led to the Rebellion.

Not really. Aerys II's actions (I don't agree with those criticising Jon Arryn's decision here. What was he supposed to do after what the mad king had done?) were the cause for the start of the Rebellion. Not only he didn't send people to find his son and summon him back at KL as he should've done, but he killed those who had no fault and were the victims in the whole story I don't think Jon Arryn would've raised the banners just becuase Rhaegar abducted Lyanna. Not without confronting him anyway, and asking clarifications.

[jobmartell]

The harp is hilarious. Ned wanting to keep Jon's birth a secret carries Rhaeagrs harp thousands of miles and to Winterfell, even allows Robert (and others) into the tomb. Seems likely.

I'm not even sure how is is evidence anyway. Rhaegar died 20 years ago, most of his social circle are dead. To everyone else it is just a harp.

In the post I quoted, i was responding to the question, of sorts, about why people in the aRfc ( anti Rhaegar fan club ) dislike him so. The obvious answer, tmal, points to "harp loathing", or Hrplo.. It's a clinical condition.

[hallam]

We really have no idea what really happened or what the cause of the rebellion was. All we have are some unreliable reports from folk who only saw part of what went on. All of it is likely to be misinterpreted.

• Aerys might not have been 'mad'.
  
• Rheagar might not have kidnapped Lyanna at all.
  
• The prophecy probably explains the actions of both.
  

[Dorian Martell]

Are you serious? Rhaegar is perhaps the most important character who is dead before the series begins. There's no problem with being invested, because several major POV characters are invested in his legacy.

but he isn't actually in the books. We only learn about him from the folks who hated him and the folks who served him. His character was meant to be ambiguous. The absolute verdicts people make are foolish. Saying he was good or bad ignores the central theme of the story.

[Dorian Martell]

Stupid broken forum

[Dorian Martell]

Broken forum is broken