TPTWP Timett Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Wow. GRRM writes an over-the-top account of nightmarish abuse of a child, an account that stands out in a series of novels notorious for their descriptions of violent cruelty, and yet there are people so incapable of compassion that they can read it and condemn Samwell Tarly.It is child abuse, but in the setting of the story weak fat boys die. The fact that his dad isn't smart enough to see Sam strengths is sad. Sam did toughen up some at the wall and proved he wasn't a coward. So I agree Sam's lazy and entitled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 This thread is ridiculous and I pray some posters here never have children. To not like Sam is to not like GRRM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victarion10 Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Sam wasn't abused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victarion10 Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Refresh my memory. I remember him pushing Sam to keep walking when Sam, well beyond the point of human endurance, wanted to give up. Humans have incredible endurance, I believe of all the animals on the planet, humans have the best. You're acting like this is a negative towards small paul, like he should have allowed Sam to just give up and die... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cladinator Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Sam is a good guy.He isn't brave. He is whiny. And he is fat to the point where he is nearly physically useless. But he is loyal. He is intelligent. And his cunning is what spared the Night's Watch the leadership of Janos Slynt. It's kinda messed up how many people are sympathetic to Randyll Tarly and his treatment of Sam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahai Ahoy Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 The arguments in favour of Sam all relate to his abusive father. Even if Sam's father had been noble and kind Ned Stark he would still be a useless craven. Randyll Tarly's (non-defensible) acts were not the cause of Sam's character defects, but the result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOne-EyedHound Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 The arguments in favour of Sam all relate to his abusive father. Even if Sam's father had been noble and kind Ned Stark he would still be a useless craven. Randyll Tarly's (non-defensible) acts were not the cause of Sam's character defects, but the result. Useless? He save a girl & her baby. He is probably the smartest person in the night's watch. He finds a way to kill the Others. A person who couldn't pick up on that while reading the books seems more useless to sociality IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Brandon Badwater Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Obvious troll thread, soon to be followed up with how can anyone dislike Joffrey/Ramsey/Gregor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahai Ahoy Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Useless? He save a girl & her baby. He is probably the smartest person in the night's watch. He finds a way to kill the Others. A person who couldn't pick up on that while reading the books seems more useless to sociality IMO. Killing an Other was brave (his best moment) and luckily leads to important knowledge. This was only possible because one of his Brothers died to give him this opportunity as a result of having to drag Sam through the snow. Saving Gilly (Gilly manipulates him into helping her) and the baby is something that makes him feel good, but does he lift a finger to help his Brothers? He has not done much to indicate that he is smart apart from help rig an election to get his friend into power (self-interest). Bowen Marsh is certainly smarter than Sam because he actually thinks about his responsibilities to the Watch. Sam is also given a job (Oldtown) and tries to weasel out of it, but Jon forces him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Humans have incredible endurance, I believe of all the animals on the planet, humans have the best. You're acting like this is a negative towards small paul, like he should have allowed Sam to just give up and die...What no, I was merely saying that Sam, like several brothers before him, had reached breaking point but he certainly wasn't giving up at the first opportunity. I think it was very brave of Small Paul and Grenn to stay back and help him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetPea Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 It's kinda messed up how many people are sympathetic to Randyll Tarly and his treatment of Sam.I don't think that is the case at all. More like, I can totally understand why he did what he did, and I can sympathize with his feelings about the situation. Namely, having a weak, fat, coward kid as his heir. I might even agree with him pushing Sam a little, trying to toughen him up. However, he want waaay too far and the way he treated Sam was simply sadistic. He should have realized early on that he can't change his son, and accepted him the way he is. And denying Sam the option of becoming a maester was stupid as hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowCat Rivers Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 From my part, I can't see how can anyone not like Sam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 He has not done much to indicate that he is smart apart from help rig an election to get his friend into power (self-interest). Um, what? Are you even reading the Jon and Samwell chapters? It's from Samwell we learn a lot of the Wall's history. He's one of the few who bother to read on the history, which might be crucial to coming war. It's from Samwell he learn of dragonsteel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowCat Rivers Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Um, what? Are you even reading the Jon and Samwell chapters? It's from Samwell we learn a lot of the Wall's history. He's one of the few who bother to read on the history, which might be crucial to coming war. It's from Samwell he learn of dragonsteel. Also, it's Sam who suggests systematic archive study and analysis as a methodology for historical research. That's pretty darn impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Also, it's Sam who suggests systematic archive study and analysis as a methodology for historical research. That's pretty darn impressive. Exactly. His first chapter in feast is a pretty accurate depiction of most fans reading these books. Losing track of time. Perhaps losing sleep or meals. Just one more page... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowCat Rivers Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 His first chapter in feast is a pretty accurate depiction of most fans reading these books. Losing track of time. Perhaps losing sleep or meals. Just one more page... :D That's us when we finally get The Winds at hands :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetPea Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Also, it's Sam who suggests systematic archive study and analysis as a methodology for historical research. That's pretty darn impressive. Wow, Sam suggests to read through the old library at the wall, in case the books contain info about the Others. That's so damn smart and impressive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William_Tell Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Also, it's Sam who suggests systematic archive study and analysis as a methodology for historical research. That's pretty darn impressive.Yep.And that's probably the main reason that made Sam the only Asoiaf charcter with whom I not only sympathize but also identify a bit. Archival research is kind of my dream job, you know. As a matter of fact the middle ages were full of scholars and book loving amateurs, nobles, kings and emperors among them. The fact that this is a trait of Sam's personality that his father can't appreciate shows the extent of Randyll's short-sightness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowCat Rivers Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Wow, Sam suggests to read through the old library at the wall, in case the books contain info about the Others. That's so damn smart and impressive! Oh, hell no. I am refering to this: “Be gentle.” Sam came around the table and took the scroll from his hand, holding it as if it were a wounded animal. “The important books used to be copied over when they needed them. Some of the oldest have been copied half a hundred times, probably.” “Well, don’t bother copying that one. Twenty-three barrels of pickled cod, eighteen jars of fish oil, a cask of salt...” “An inventory,” Sam said, “or perhaps a bill of sale.” “Who cares how much pickled cod they ate six hundred years ago?” Jon wondered. “I would.” Sam carefully replaced the scroll in the bin from which Jon had plucked it. “You can learn so much from ledgers like that, truly you can. it can tell you how many men were in the Night’s Watch then, how they lived, what they ate...” “They ate food,” said Jon, “and they lived as we live.” “You’d be surprised. This vault is a treasure, Jon.” “If you say so.” Jon was doubtful. Treasure meant gold, silver, and jewels, not dust, spiders, and rotting leather. ACOK, Jon I And it is impressive as it is a very avant-garde way of thinking for a person brought up in a "medieval" mindset world. As a matter of fact the middle ages were full of scholars and book loving amateurs, nobles, kings and emperors among them. The fact that this is a trait of Sam's personality that his father can't appreciate shows the extent of Randyll's short-sightness. True. In ASOIAF there are also a few like Tyrion, the Reader and some more. But the "mainstream" approach to historical study is depicted best by Tyrion: he does question the established ideas, but his idea of assessing the truth is by locating the best informed and most reliable source that was contemporary to the historical events in question, and cross-check with various sources. Not by examining independent, indirect and secondary but objective data, like Sam proposes to do with the archives; that's relatively modern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 There is no victim blaming as Sam isn't a victim, only in his own mind. Sam wasn't abused.If you think Sam was never abused, then please, never have children of your own. He was chained to a wall like an animal ffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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