Sweetrobin's parentage + speculation about Harry (minor spoilers for Alayne I)

[Grayce Hornwood]

But here's the thing: If George decided to make this his "big twist", then there wouldn't be any textual clues leading up to the reveal. He said himself that it's something he hadn't thought of before. Why would we expect to find anything in the text that the author hasn't thought of? Looking at it in this regard, I can see it happening. Perhaps he noticed the coincidences and then :idea:

[Annara Snow]

But here's the thing: If George decided to make this his "big twist", then there wouldn't be any textual clues leading up to the reveal. He said himself that it's something he hadn't thought of before. Why would we expect to find anything in the text that the author hasn't thought of? Looking at it in this regard, I can see it happening. Perhaps he noticed the coincidences and then :idea:

 

 

That's the real sticking point for me.  In her climactic emotional breakdown, when Lysa is terrified that Littlefinger is going to ditch her and take up with Catelyn 2.0/Sansa, she reels off the list of things she's given him:  "I gave you my maiden's gift.  I would have given you a son too, but they murdered him with moon tea[.]"  She then proceeds to talk about how she's supported his career, helped him with his plans, etc.  This is a woman in total crisis.

 

Surely, if she had any inkling that Robert might be Littlefinger's son, she would be urging that idea at this point.  Why would she ever remain silent, when she's spilling the details on everything else she's done for him?  Lysa would know if they were sleeping together around the time of Robert's conception, she certainly knows what Baelish looks like and what he looked like as a child (and so would be able to compare him to Robert), and she surely would have nurtured that possibility to the point of certainty over the years in her obsession with Baelish and her lost child.

 

I think the arguments in favour are quite plausible (the description of Harry as having Jon's look stood out), but if it's true, I find that impossible to reconcile with Lysa's behavior here.

 

I don't think it's a coincidence, it seems deliberate in Alayne I in AFFC and Alayne I in TWOW.

 

It's possible that SR will not be revealed (to the readers) to be LF's son, but I still think GRRM is doing it on purpose, in which case it could be that:

 

1) he just put it there so there would always be a little bit of suspicion on readers' part - kind of like the possibility that at least one of the miller's boys may have been Theon's biological son, which is definitely never going to be a plot point, but which has crossed many readers' minds, and may have crossed Theon's mind;

 

or

 

2) SR is actually not LF's biological son, but his parentage will be a plot point, because someone will raise an accusation/start a rumor that SR is LF's bastard, based on the same evidence mentioned in the OP. Allegations of false paternity have been used as a political tool many time in RL history, and in ASOAIF - it would be ironic if they were incorrect for once in spite of all appearances.

[A Ghost of Someone]

One thing that gets me with Alayne in the sample chapter, we finally get a description of Harry the heir, he is said to look exactly like Jon Arryn did at his age, tall, chizeled and blond. SweetRobin looks nothing like that - a spitting image of his father and he does not look like his mother either, who undoubtably gave birth to him. He does however, resemble in body structure and hair coloring, Littlefinger. I think he is Baelish's child and LF does not realize it. I could see LF killing off his own kid and receiving a ghastly fate (kinslayer's curse). I just hope he does not get Sansa involved, she has had enough curses befall her.

[Mithras]

I think the small stature of SR is related to another thing missed by most of the readers.

 

"Sweets?" said Colemon.

"Sweets. Cakes and pies, jams and jellies, honey on the comb. Perhaps a pinch of sweetsleep in his milk, have you tried that? Just a pinch, to calm him and stop his wretched shaking."

"A pinch?" The apple in the maester's throat moved up and down as he swallowed. "One small pinch . . . perhaps, perhaps. Not too much, and not too often, yes, I might try . . ."

 

"Sweetsleep is the gentlest of poisons," the waif told her, as she was grinding some with a mortar and pestle. "A few grains will slow a pounding heart and stop a hand from shaking, and make a man feel calm and strong. A pinch will grant a night of deep and dreamless sleep. Three pinches will produce that sleep that does not end. The taste is very sweet, so it is best used in cakes and pies and honeyed wines. Here, you can smell the sweetness."

 

A pinch of sweetsleep gives a normal person a night of deep and dreamless sleep but nothing of that sort happened to Sweetrobin who is a small child.

                                                                                                               

Colemon expected Sweetrobin’s nose to bleed after that pinch but nothing of that sort happened to Sweetrobin.

 

It can only mean one thing: Sweetrobin has been given sweetsleep for a long time and it increased his drug tolerance to sweetsleep. LF, without the knowledge of Lysa, was poisoning SR.

 

Also recall that the poison in the black pool of HoB&W is sweetsleep and too much exposure to it stunted the growth of the Waif.

 

I don't think that Sweetrobin is Little finger's child. If he was then Lysa would have brought that up when she was rambling before being pushed out of the moon door. 

 

This.

 

That's the real sticking point for me.  In her climactic emotional breakdown, when Lysa is terrified that Littlefinger is going to ditch her and take up with Catelyn 2.0/Sansa, she reels off the list of things she's given him:  "I gave you my maiden's gift.  I would have given you a son too, but they murdered him with moon tea[.]"  She then proceeds to talk about how she's supported his career, helped him with his plans, etc.  This is a woman in total crisis.

 

Surely, if she had any inkling that Robert might be Littlefinger's son, she would be urging that idea at this point.  Why would she ever remain silent, when she's spilling the details on everything else she's done for him?  Lysa would know if they were sleeping together around the time of Robert's conception, she certainly knows what Baelish looks like and what he looked like as a child (and so would be able to compare him to Robert), and she surely would have nurtured that possibility to the point of certainty over the years in her obsession with Baelish and her lost child.

 

I think the arguments in favour are quite plausible (the description of Harry as having Jon's look stood out), but if it's true, I find that impossible to reconcile with Lysa's behavior here.

 

along with this.

[BricksAndSparrows]

I don;t think there is enough evidence to completely rule it out. I got a vibe that it is very possible.

[LongRider]

That's the real sticking point for me.  In her climactic emotional breakdown, when Lysa is terrified that Littlefinger is going to ditch her and take up with Catelyn 2.0/Sansa, she reels off the list of things she's given him:  "I gave you my maiden's gift.  I would have given you a son too, but they murdered him with moon tea[.]"  She then proceeds to talk about how she's supported his career, helped him with his plans, etc.  This is a woman in total crisis.

 

Surely, if she had any inkling that Robert might be Littlefinger's son, she would be urging that idea at this point.  Why would she ever remain silent, when she's spilling the details on everything else she's done for him?  Lysa would know if they were sleeping together around the time of Robert's conception, she certainly knows what Baelish looks like and what he looked like as a child (and so would be able to compare him to Robert), and she surely would have nurtured that possibility to the point of certainty over the years in her obsession with Baelish and her lost child.

 

I think the arguments in favour are quite plausible (the description of Harry as having Jon's look stood out), but if it's true, I find that impossible to reconcile with Lysa's behavior here.

 

I agree with this, if Lysa thought SR was LF's love child, she would have said so, and made a point of it LF before this. 

 

~~~snip~~~

                                                                                                               

Colemon expected Sweetrobin’s nose to bleed after that pinch but nothing of that sort happened to Sweetrobin.

 

It can only mean one thing: Sweetrobin has been given sweetsleep for a long time and it increased his drug tolerance to sweetsleep. LF, without the knowledge of Lysa, was poisoning SR.

 

Also recall that the poison in the black pool of HoB&W is sweetsleep and too much exposure to it stunted the growth of the Waif. ~~~snip~~~~

 

 

This too and I'm glad it was brought up as GRRM likes to hide clues to one part of the story in another part.  Genetics is a statistical numbers game, so what can pop out for one's appearance can sometimes be a bit surprising. 

[Annara Snow]

 

I agree with this, if Lysa thought SR was LF's love child, she would have said so, and made a point of it LF before this. 

 

 

This too and I'm glad it was brought up as GRRM likes to hide clues to one part of the story in another part.  Genetics is a statistical numbers game, so what can pop out for one's appearance can sometimes be a bit surprising. 

 

Well, if that is true, then Jon Arryn was even more of a clueless doofus than we have thought so far. Not knowing your wife is cheating on you and has made you promote her ex-lover, or that she plans to poison you, is one thing, but not being aware that your wife's lover, who has no business being anywhere near your son, has been slowly poisoning your only child and heir for years?! Come on!

 

And why would LF be doing that for years? What would he have to gain from it? It makes no sense.

[spoon89]

Well, if that is true, then Jon Arryn was even more of a clueless doofus than we have thought so far. Not knowing your wife is cheating on you and has made you promote her ex-lover, or that she plans to poison you, is one thing, but not being aware that your wife's lover, who has no business being anywhere near your son, has been slowly poisoning your only child and heir for years?! Come on!

 

And why would LF be doing that for years? What would he have to gain from it? It makes no sense.

 

I have theorized elsewhere that it may be the case that sweetsleep is able to pass through breast milk and that Lysa was possibly a regular user of sweetsleep herself (possibly exposing him to it while in the womb also).

 

If this is the case, she may have been accidentally treating his fits while breast feeding, once she tried to wean him off breast milk the fits started so she continued the breast feeding which would make his fits subside (so long as she was regularly using sweetsleep). Now she's gone so they now have to treat his fits with sweetsleep and the expected effect that the dosage should have is not what they are experiencing.

 

It's funny how LF came up with the idea of giving him sweetsleep to treat the fits, when the longtime maester for the house had seemingly not thought of it.
 

[Mithras]

I think the excuse LF used to give SR sweetsleep was to make him go to sleep so that he and Lysa could have sex by his side.

[obsessed]

 LF had been bragging before, probably for years, about supposedly having had taken Cat's virginity

 

 

This always seemed to be out-of-character for LF, but now I'm thinking it may have been calculated as a chaotic red herring to throw people off of his ongoing manipulative affair with Lysa.

[Masha]

I am not sure that Lysa had an affair with LF after marrying.

 

Frankly speaking based on his and her reactions, she was obsessed with him while he felt disgusted with her. She would have wanted to have an affair, I suspect he put her off with platitudes and talks of honor which made her want him more and more till it lead to her obsession with him we see now. I don't think she would have been that eager to jump his bones if they were lovers, she was going "finally" in aSoS.

 

Furthermore, even in the slight chance that LF is sweet Robyn's father I don't think he is aware of it at all, otherwise he would have put more effort into him, other than having Sansa and that Maester ply him with dangerous sedatives.

[aryagonnakill#2]

^ Lysa says that after all these years of keeping quite she was going to scream loud enough for everyone to hear, implying they had sex where they could have potentially been overheard.

 

LF also says back in AGOT, when you find yourself in bed with an ugly woman, the best thing to do is just get it over with, again implying he had to sleep with Lysa at least some times in order to keep his control over her.

[shadows and dust]

^^

---Textually it could have just as easily been: "Keeping my love for Peter quiet," "Keeping my lust for Peter quiet," "Keeping quiet while I take care of my own needs thinking about Peter because I've been a woman of a now-deceased husband with no consort, and have been sexually starved for years."

 

---LF is the successful owner of a number of brothels. He has made his success in life - coin counting, brothel running, etc - by doing the things that other, higher, lords think beneath them. Sure they want gold, and sure they want sex, but they don't want to do the uncouth act of counting/distributing such. I would imagine the metaphor of banging out the paper-bagger is apt for most of his successes. It doesn't have to be literal.

 

 

 

As an aside, light hair typically is not a dominant trait. If I were putting together a Maury episode around a birth, I'd rather hang my hat on the two dark haired parents with the blonde baby than the two lighter haired parents of a dark haired one.

[Lord Wraith]

If SweetRobin was Petyr's son I doubt he would be poisoning him. So I doubt it is his son.

[aryagonnakill#2]

Shadows and Dust, the text does not read that way and that would still not explain his quote in AGOT.

[VladofWallachia]

The best evidence for SW being LF's is that because Lysa couldn't procreate with Jon, she either attempted it with LF (and probably produced SW) and either knew and kept it a secret or didn't know. In any case, it would be interesting if the duel between Petyr and Brandon would be echoed by a confrontation between Petyr's son SW and Harold over Sansa.

[The Kinkslayer]

There are more parallels between sweet Robin and Littlefinger: The prophecy of the maid slaying a giant in a castle made of snow.

It has been speculated that the giant is LF's ancestral sigil as his family is from Braavos, but the prophecy fits just as well for SR's doll.

A more tin foil parallel was that SR wanted to kill a little man (Tyrion) by making him fly and that LF's dagger was used to try to kill another little man who flew.