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BearQueen87

R+L=J v. 152

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I do believe you have some very good and strong points there. But on the other hand if Benjen really was to know about Jon's parentage why didn't he try to convince him to stay In Winterfell? Why letting him take the black? Because it's safe? Or what other reason might there be?

Jon couldn't stay in Winterfell due to Cat. And Ned did not want Jon to go to court. So what else was here? Benjen did try to discourage Jon from joining, talking about his youth, and how he should have a few bastards first, which makes Jon leave the hall in anger. All Ben did after that evening, was discuss Jon with Luwin, and I'd guess that this was to see whether Jon was ready at all..

When Ned decides that Jon will go to the NW, he will go and talk to Benjen. Talk about what? Was there something that Benjen had been supposed to arrange in regards to Jon but couldn't, as he was lost Beyond the Wall? Like, for example, ensure that Jon was placed somewhere safe?

I don't know.

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corbon,

 

actually, we don't know exactly whether there peace was still a possibility after the abduction. It is true that Jon Arryn only called his banner after the royal command about Ned and Robert arrived, but we have no idea whether Rickard, Brandon, and Robert would have sat idly by or not pulled off some variation of Lyonel Baratheon story together had they had the chance to talk to each other after the abduction.

 

And I'm not really sure whether Rickard intended to champion Brandon rather than himself in the trial-by-combat. If I get things correctly then Rickard and the other elders that showed up at court were also accused of stuff, and faced trials of their own. Rickard demanded a trial-by-combat - surely Brandon could have done the same for himself, and would also have fought himself in such a trial. The very nature of the twisted trial has Rickard fight against fire while Brandon also has some sort of twisted champion role in all that, with the sword lying at his feet, and the impossible opportunity to save his father.

 

The purpose of the savior(s)/hero(es):

 

I really don't know. I actually think we are in to a surprise there having the heroes not doing all that much magical or hero-like stuff but rather serving as focal points for uniting humanity against the Others. Think about that - both Jon and Dany's main successes as of yet to bring people together. Jon successfully brought the Northmen and many of the wildlings together while Daenerys unites disparate peoples in Essos.

 

Unless the Others are no video game villains (or Sauron) they can't be defeated because one guy does one crucial thing (say, destroying something important).

 

But to speculate more about that we have first to learn the really interesting - who are the Others, why do they exist, what do they want, can you reason with them, how can they be killed. My guess is that the first Others were/are either a lost tribe of Children of the Forest which did not agree to the Pact or decided to break it because it did not want to hand over their world to humanity, or another sentient species which felt threatened by humanity to do something about them. The fact that the Children seem to be rather neutral in all that (the Last Hero had to look for them, but they didn't search him or humanity out) and neither are the Others right now targeting the remaining Children or making a huge effort to take the greenseer cave (posting a few wights there isn't exactly a big effort). Bran wonders why the Children are only sad and not angry about their lot in life, and that may be a hint that not all Children are only sad about that whole thing. After all, back in the day there were fierce wars between the Children and the First Men.

My guess is the Others are abominations to anything that lives created out of former Children of the Forest (and the later Others former humans) through as part of a spell/magical project to eradicate humanity for good - not just from Westeros, but from the whole world. To achieve this the first Others (or the Children creating them) would have delved deep into a variation of ice magic that was always at their disposal (but perhaps forbidden or too dangerous) to transform the whole world into an ice desert. Whether this is achieved through 'Otherization' (that is, the transformation of enough beings into Others which then, in turn, bring the cold simply by their presence) or whether they simply decided to transform themselves into Others to be able to live in the world they are creating I'm not sure. But it is quite clear that being Other makes you very vulnerable to fire magic or artifacts imbued/created by fire magic.

 

My personal guess is that 'the Song of Ice and Fire' is going to turn out to be the fight against the Others.

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@ Unmasked Lurker:

 

I put your comments in a spoiler only because I don't know how to quote from a locked thread and when I cut and pasted from the previous thread, it looked odd. So, spoiler ONLY to keep from being distracting. 

 

[spoiler] Of course we have to fill in some blanks -- that is what GRRM does -- he gives us part of the story and we need to use our logical reasoning ability to try to fill in the rest (play Sherlock Holmes). Sometimes we get it right and sometimes wrong. But that does not mean there are "holes" in a particular theory -- just that alternative theories might also be plausible. I think that is an important distinction. 

 

Now directly to your points. I highly doubt that the vision has been given to the readers as a "trick" to mislead us about what Rhaegar was thinking or doing. Based on the context and content of the statements made in the vision, I think it is reasonable to conclude that we were seeing basically what actually happened at that time. The only obvious "trick" about the vision is when Rhaegar appears to look at Dany. I believe that the reason for this "trick" is obvious -- that statement by Rhaegar was the part that was meant to be a message to Dany -- and she got it and understood. Note that Rhaegar says "there must be one more" but Dany understands how that statement applies to her -- to her there must be "two more" because she is one of the heads and she understand she needs to find the other two -- not one more as Rhaegar actually said (because he was talking about his understanding at that time and not actually talking to Dany -- but she got what it meant for her).

 

As to whether Rhaegar believed his three children would be the three heads -- I think in context there is no other reasonable conclusion. He just states that Aegon is TPTWP. We know he has two children at that point. We know he says that the dragon must have three heads. If he thought that he or Viserys could be the third head, he would not say there must be one more -- all three heads would already be identified. There must be one more means either that he does not know who the third head is but needs to find him or her (seems unlikely as he knows who all the living Targs are) or that he is saying he needs to have one more child to be the third head. That latter interpretation is by far the most likely. And in working through theories, we need to go with something or we never form any conclusions at all and then what is the point of debating these issues. I would rather use the most reasonable interpretations of the clues to form conclusions and possibly be wrong than just sit around and keep saying that we cannot be sure and we just have to wait. GRRM generally will not give us better clues until the big reveal -- so we have to go with what we have. Sometime we just don't have enough to form a reasonable conclusion -- but here we have enough (even if we still might be wrong).

 

We know that Rhaegar and Aemon both indicate that the dragon must have three heads. While they might not be very good at figuring out who is TPTWP or who are the three heads, they are leading experts on the actual contents of the prophecy. Even if they don't  know what it really means, they know what it says -- so if they say the dragon has three heads, they must be getting this from the prophecy. So I think in terms of forming conclusions, we can be fairly comfortable with the conclusion that the prophecy includes a statement that the dragon has three heads. It is up to the readers to interpret the true meaning -- the characters won't do that until the "big reveal" but we have enough clues to try to make a reasoned conclusion (admitting, of course, as with all of these theories, that we might be wrong).

 

As to whether Rhaegar is happy in the vision --  yes, I think he is. He just saw the birth of TPTWP. The prophecy that he feels responsible to ensure gets fulfilled is in the process of being fulfilled (in his view), and I think he loves his children (and at a minimum is fond of Elia and perhaps loves her on some level even if not "in love" with her). At that moment, Elia probably has not yet been told that she cannot have any more children (Aegon seems to be basically a new-born infant at that moment), so if that is the case, then Rhaegar likely simply means that he and Elia need to have one more child. I am not sure that at that point, Rhaegar had any consideration of having a child with another woman. That plan presumably only forms after he finds out that Elia can have no more children (again, even if we don't know this fact for certain, it is a reasonable and logical conclusion).

 

Finally, in terms of the "gap" that you reference -- of course there is a gap -- GRRM needs to keep the readers guessing a bit. But we have enough information about Rhaegar and Lyanna to conclude that under whatever circumstances Rhaegar "took" Lyanna, it is highly unlikely that he kept her captive against her will. If Rhaegar is bound and determined to "create" the third head of the dragon, he is going to want this child to be a "dragon" in every sense that Rhaegar can control -- which would include getting married to Lyanna. While a Targ bastard is referred to as a dragonseed, Rhaegar would think he needs more than just a dragonseed (although I think Rhaegar probably was wrong on this point -- but it makes sense that Rhaegar would believe this element of fulfilling the prophecy) but a true dragon, which would mean having a trueborn Targ -- i.e., a child of Rhaegar and a woman married to Rhaegar. So while GRRM has not given us enough information to make definitive conclusions about the circumstances surrounding the "abduction and imprisonment" of Lyanna (of course I put those words in quotes because I don't think that is really what happened), we can use our logical reasoning powers based on other information we have (e.g., how Ned thinks of Rhaegar, why the KG were at ToJ and not DS with Viserys, etc.) to conclude that Lyanna voluntarily stayed with Rhaegar (even if she might not have known he was coming for her initially -- not sure on that point -- could go either way) that they got married and intentionally tried to have a child together. [/spoiler]

 

Agree that this interpretation is allowable from the text--as you are fully aware. Only argument is that it is not the only interp, especially of the visions in the House of the Undying

 

1. RE: your argument about the vision meaning that Dany now has to have three heads of dragon: IF assume Rhaegar is looking at Dany because it’s a clue about what she must do, then have to assume that Rhaegar was at least partially right that his kid (Jon) would be the PTWP. Just wrong about which kid. And thus it’s a hint to Dany. But nowhere in text does it say Rhaegar has interpreted the prophecy correctly, So far, everyone in the novels has a dismal record of prophecy interpretation. Case in point from the same set of visions: Rhaego. Also—details on Red Wedding a bit off.

 

2. BUT: if the vision of Rhaegar is like the two visions before it—part of Dany’s family history—then she’s seeing what was. What Rhaegar’s intent WAS, not will be. The vision is then “Rhaegar in the moment” –like the other visions of the past show people in a moment (The Red Door, Aerys, Silver, etc.). So, he could be thinking in that moment—“could have one of my siblings."

 

3. So, vision isn’t “tricking” us—it’s just part of the context given in the visions. Unreliable. And not stated if it’s past, present, things that will be, or things that never will be. Which is in context with the rest of the visions--some show past, some show future, some show what will never be. Rhaegar's vision is right after the other Targ visions of family "heritage"--Dany and her red door, Aery's depopulation program, and Rhaegar. 

 

4.  Bottom Line: Vision shows that Rhaegar was thinking about the prophecy. But it does not confirm or necessarily imply he would need or think he’d need to kidnap/”persuade” another woman/girl to get a child. Depends only on if think it's a future vision hint. And given the context and the nature of the Undying per se, the idea that the vision could just be the past and that the Undying are NOT trying to help has to be one of the interpretive options.

 

I will try to address your point as best I can:

 

1. I agree that anytime anyone in the books tries to interpret the actual meaning of the prophecies, they do a bad job. But I think that those who study the prophecies know their content -- they just don't really know what the content means. We know that part of the prophecy is that TPTWP will come from the Aerys/Rhaella line. So any child of Rhaegar automatically is a potential candidate. We can be pretty sure Rhaegar was wrong about Aegon being TPTWP -- maybe he eventually figured out it would be Jon (as I and some others suspect) or maybe not. But I don't think that specific issue is what is important about the vision. The hint to Dany is not directly about Aegon or Jon (although I think if she knew Jon was Rhaegar's son, she would assume he was a head of the dragon) -- but rather the message to Dany is there are three heads of the dragon -- you are one of them -- find the other two. Dany says that there are two other men in the world she can trust and she has to find them -- so she gets the hint. But Rhaegar was not really talking to Dany because Dany needs to find two more and Rhaegar's statement was that there needs to be one more. Rhaegar was talking about his understand of his situation -- which really only makes sense if he is talking about the need to have a third child.

 

2. I agree it is Rhaegar in the moment. At that time, Rhaegar had only one sibling -- Viserys -- Dany was not born yet. He could not be talking about V as the third head because then he would not be saying that there must be one more -- he would say something like we finally have all three. There must be one more is a clear statement that the third either has not be identified or not been born yet. In context, I think it is clear he means a third child of his own. And, of course, he was wrong about his two children alive at that time being heads of the dragon -- but the vision reflects what he thought at that moment.

 

3. When I say "tricking" I only mean that the vision makes Rhaegar appear to look at Dany. I don't think vision Rhaegar thinks he is looking at Dany. But the vision makes it appear that way to get Dany's attention that she better listen closely to this message -- it is important to her future. And luckily she seems to get the message that there are three heads of the dragon who need to come together as a team -- and she is one of the heads. Vision-Rhaegar was not intending to tell her this -- he was talking about his situation at his time -- but the "magic" of the vision had him appear to look at her at the right time to get the message across that needed to be communicated to help her in her mission.

 

4. I am not sure I get your bottom line logic. What the vision tells us is that Rhaegar thought there needed to be one more to complete the three heads of the dragon. Then logic comes in. Logic tells us that if he thinks there needs to be one more -- then he does not think the third head has been identified -- most likely because Rhaegar thinks his children will be the three heads and he only has two children. We then find out separately that Elia is told she can have no more children. So logic dictates that if Rhaegar thinks he needs to have 3 children to be the 3 heads -- and if he has only 2 children and his wife cannot have a third -- then he needs to find another woman to have the third child. We also know that he is trying to create a "dragon" which -- again logic -- means he probably thinks that person needs to be a full-blown Targ (not a bastard), so he needs to marry this second woman. Can I "prove" that this analysis is the only possible correct analysis -- of course we both know I cannot. But as you acknowledge, it is consistent with all the facts we have -- it best explains all the unanswered questions -- so until someone comes up with a more plausible explanation that also is consistent with the facts, I think this analysis serves as a pretty good working theory. 

 

Actually the vision isn't all that happy, he says to Elia, "sadly," there must be one more.

And then he says the same thing to Dany through the filter of a vision,

Both relate to Jon. Its interesting that it almost feels like Rhaegar is speaking through the confines of the "vision" to tell Dany to find Jon.

As noted above, I think Rhaegar merely said what he said at that time and Dany is being shown it. The reason she is being shown it is because she needs to know this information to complete her mission. Yes, Rhaegar says there must be one more -- but Dany understands that in her situation, there must be two more. She says there are two men out there who she can trust -- she just needs to find them. These 2 men are the other 2 heads of the dragon. Yes, Jon almost certainly is one of them -- but there also is a third.

 

 

 

Are you so sure Jon is the PTWP? Maester Aemon would disagree, he placed his bet on Dany. We also don't know if Azor Ahai and PTWP are one or two separate characters. In case of two, I'd say Jon is more Azor Ahai than the promised prince. In that case we may find that song of ice and fire is not Jon's. Of course, we have plenty of candidates to be Azor Ahai, not only Jon.

 

Jon will be the leader sometime close to the end of series. Leader of which side, I'm not sure yet. I really doubt scenario "Dany comes to Westeros with her dragons, all join her final quest to defeat the Others". I think we'll see a lot of internal conflicts before that final battle and I wouldn't be surprised to find Jon opposing Daenerys, at least at some point.

When a character makes an explicit prediction about the solution to a mystery -- like Aemon expressly concluding that Dany is TPTWP -- it almost always is a red herring. When Mel ask to see AA, all she sees is "Snow." Jon also is the Son(g) of Ice (Lyanna) and Fire (Rhaegar), personified (and Lyanna said to Ned about Jon -- "promise me"). So Jon almost certainly is both AAR and TPTPW. Again, can I know for sure? No. But the best evidence points in that direction. I think Dany is TSTMTW but not AAR or TPTWP.

 

As to whether bringing Dany and Jon together will be easy -- of course not -- what fun would that be for the readers? But I think it is inevitable that the 3HD prophecy will come true which means that Dany and Jon (and the third head) must come together as a team at some point (at least that is my interpretation of the prophecy). Of course I might be wrong, but again, until I hear a more plausible analysis, I think this working theory is pretty good.

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UL,

 

actually, the Aerys-Rhaella line thing is part of another prophecy, the one made by the Ghost to Jaehaerys, not part of 'the original promised prince prophecy', whatever that is. Aemon's words suggests that there are multiple prophecies supposed to refer to that guy, but there has to be a rather precisely worded version of that prophecy making it clear that the guy the Targaryens call 'the promised prince' is supposed to be somebody from their bloodline.

 

If that would turn out to be an interpretation of the prophecy rather than something that is actually stated in there by, say, referring to guys that could, with hindsight, only be identified as Aenar the Exile and his children and descendants, then all bets are off, really. There would be no reason to buy the assumption that this promised prince savior guy does even have to have Targaryen blood. It could be everyone and no one in such a scenario.

 

As to Rhaegar's belief about the dragon heads:

 

My guess is actually that he believed Aegon and Viserys were the two dragon heads at this point rather than Aegon and Rhaenys. Nobody expected the promised prince to female, which makes it rather likely that no one thought that a woman could be one of the dragon heads. After all, we have no idea what sort of difference there is supposed to be between the dragon heads and the promised prince in regards to, well, everything, so if the people were open-minded enough to consider a girl a dragon head then it would be strange that no one ever expected a female savior.

 

As to the meaning of the Rhaegar-Elia vision:

 

I've always seen this as a clue as to who Daenerys is supposed to be - the promised princess. Rhaegar is most likely wrong in regards to Aegon but the clue that he might have been right back then creates tension for the coming Dany-Aegon plot, but him seemingly looking at her when he speaks of those things is a hint that she is indeed the one he is looking for. And whatever she is destined to do in the future, she has already fulfilled the dragons-from-stone thing, most evidently a major part of the prophecy and necessary for things to move forward. Even if she dies tomorrow she may still be or have been the promised princess if it turned out that her major role and destiny was to bring the dragons back.

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I have a question here. If Rhaegar thought his three children will be a duplicate of Aegon the conqueror. 

Why did he name his first daughter Rhaeneys not viseya? Rhaeneys was the youngest one and viernya was the oldest one and first daughter, right?

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I have a question here. If Rhaegar thought his three children will be a duplicate of Aegon the conqueror. 

Why did he name his first daughter Rhaeneys not viseya? Rhaeneys was the youngest one and viernya was the oldest one and first daughter, right?

I have never thought Rhaegar was trying to recreate the original Targ conquerors. I believe Rhaenys likely was named after Rhaegar himself and Aegon was named because, as Rhaegar said, it is good name for a King. BUT, that does not mean that the example of the original 3 did not help to influence Rhaegar to believe that three siblings -- his three children -- would be the three heads of the dragon. Of course, he was wrong if he believed that. My best guess for what Rhaegar intended to name Jon would be Aemon (for reasons that have been discussed before).

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Just a couple of quick things before I head to work in terms of clarification:

 

LV: On Dany, yes again. I don't think her long-term survival is even necessary as she may already have fulfilled her pivotal role- waking the dragons/mother of dragons. At this point, to some, she is less human and almost mother/goddess figure.

 

(In this regard, the emphasis on Arya in the RK with the bones of the dragons, will be interesting in her future relationship with the "dragons" ).

 

 

Rhaegars perception of himself.

 

I think the question for me is why and where did he come by the notion that he was the savior in question? As a sensitive, impressionable child who decided one day he needed to become a warrior because of something he read?

 

Is this a legitimate vision, or the start of well-intentioned hubris? History is rife with bored, young aristocrats looking for something more meaningful, Lord Byron comes to mind.

 

Martin repeatedly warns us against those who follow and live by prophesy and Rhaegar would fall into this category unless he has a legitimate gift as a seer, and that is unclear, or has been dabbling in sorcery.

 

I can more envision a scenario where it starts out as a case of well meaning hubris, (wanting to save the world and it all rests on him), becoming disillusioned and doubtful, to the point where he meets Lyanna who captures his heart and imagination, follows his heart to the TOJ, (he gave it its name which indicates great happiness on his part which would be in conflict with the sad, sober Rhaegar prior to the TOJ), actually living for the first time in his live and then prophesy is fulfilled with the conception of Jon, a prince whose life is saved with a promise.

 

Does he take Lyanna because she is key to prophesy, or does he take Lyanna because the prophesy is key to her?

 

(There was also a theory some time ago that in actually taking Lyanna, Rhaegar angered the old gods, thus causing the very thing he feared would happen).

 

Prophesy, a very "tricksy" thing.

 

Given that Martin is more interested writing about internal, human conflicts as opposed to magic, (he has called himself a "low magic" fantasy writer), then I think the focus is more on the exerience.

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I have a question here. If Rhaegar thought his three children will be a duplicate of Aegon the conqueror. 
Why did he name his first daughter Rhaeneys not viseya? Rhaeneys was the youngest one and viernya was the oldest one and first daughter, right?

My personal view:

Aegon I had married both his sisters, despite it being custom that the elder son married the elder sister (Visenya, in this case). The line of dragonkings descends from Rhaenys, and while her son Aenys was the elder of Aegon's two sons, he descended from the younger sister-wife. This easily could have played a part in Visenya and Maegor taking the throne over Aenys' own son, Aegon, when Aenys died.

In order to prevent such wars of succession, in an attempt to make he line continue through Rhaenys and Aegon once more, he named the elder girl Rhaenys, and had planned to name the younger daughter (who I am convinced he thought he would have by Lyanna) Visenya. In that case, Rhaenys and Aegon could marry each other and continue the line, and even if Rhaegar would come to feel it necessary that Aegon marry both his sisters, the line could continue through Rhaenys and Aegon while in addition being descended from the elder sister-wife, leaving all claims of order of birth a non-issue.

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I think we'll see a lot of internal conflicts before that final battle and I wouldn't be surprised to find Jon opposing Daenerys, at least at some point.

Did you miss that "Stark" means "stone", and that Daenerys will kneel before a great dragon as the grass (crowds) does also, when a stone turns beneath her foot. I am pretty sure that the sequence will go the opposite way that you believe.

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Since the 'Why didn't Rhaegar name his first daughter Visenya if he was potentially trying to recreate the original 3' has come up again, I'm going to ask again since I don't rememeber:

 

When has a child ever been named after Visenya after what she potentially did in history?

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Since the 'Why didn't Rhaegar name his first daughter Visenya if he was potentially trying to recreate the original 3' has come up again, I'm going to ask again since I don't rememeber:

 

When has a child ever been named after Visenya after what she potentially did in history?

 

You mean he did not name it like that because they did not like her? But Visenya is a girl's name, there were plenty of Viserys there.

But yeah, I agree that his first daughter was likely named after his own name. At that moment he probably thought himself was the Promised Prince.   

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Did you miss that "Stark" means "stone", and that Daenerys will kneel before a great dragon as the grass (crowds) does also, when a stone turns beneath her foot. I am pretty sure that the sequence will go the opposite way that you believe.


Don't recall it being mentioned anywhere that Stark means stone. Don't you mean Skagos which, if I recall correctly, means stone in the old tongue.

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Since the 'Why didn't Rhaegar name his first daughter Visenya if he was potentially trying to recreate the original 3' has come up again, I'm going to ask again since I don't rememeber:

 

When has a child ever been named after Visenya after what she potentially did in history?

 

Rhaenyra's stillborn was named Visenya, for what it's worth.

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Since the 'Why didn't Rhaegar name his first daughter Visenya if he was potentially trying to recreate the original 3' has come up again, I'm going to ask again since I don't rememeber:
 
When has a child ever been named after Visenya after what she potentially did in history?

Viserys, Aerys' second son, seems to have been named for her. Granted, before she did anything that got Targaryens killed.

Princess Viserra was most likely named for the prince, as well Viserys I. Viserys II was named for Viserys I.

As said, Rhaenyra named her daughter Visenya, but whether that was specifically for the Queen, I can't say. Perhaps she just liked the name, or was it another way to name a child after her father.

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Honestly, based on what the TV show described, there was no such things like Prophecy or politics. 

And I believe although there are many adaptations of TV shows, there is not going to be big changes on this plot.

I would put my money on that Rhaegar just fell in love with Lyanna deeply. Then he was driven by mad love to crown her publicly and then run off with her, ignoring or underestimating the possible risks. 

Whatever prophecy or politics did not play any major role here.

This is just a love story (although not very perfect since Rhaegar was a married man with two children) 

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I have a question here. If Rhaegar thought his three children will be a duplicate of Aegon the conqueror. 
Why did he name his first daughter Rhaeneys not viseya? Rhaeneys was the youngest one and viernya was the oldest one and first daughter, right?

Rhaegar reaches the conclusion he himself is not the Prince Who Was Promised after Aegon is conceived (he sees a comet in the sky on that night) so his need to have his three children recreate the founding trio is a conclusion he reaches after Rhaenys has already been born and named. Which explains why he didn't name her Visenya - he didn't know he needed to at the time.

Rhaegar's understanding of the prophecy is wrong, like so many others who try to unravel its meaning, but the key, I think, is trying to understand what he is thinking. Daenerys's vision, if you believe it to be true, makes it fairly clear that he has taken his house sigil as a sign that his children are the key to bring about the prophecy. He thinks he must have three children because the "dragon has the heads." A specific reference to Aegon and his sisters.

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Rhaegar reaches the conclusion he himself is not the Prince Who Was Promised after Aegon is conceived (he sees a comet in the sky on that night) so his need to have his three children recreate the founding trio is a conclusion he reaches after Rhaenys has already been born and named. Which explains why he didn't name her Visenya - he didn't know he needed to at the time.

Rhaegar's understanding of the prophecy is wrong, like so many others who try to unravel its meaning, but the key, I think, is trying to understand what he is thinking. Daenerys's vision, if you believe it to be true, makes it fairly clear that he has taken his house sigil as a sign that his children are the key to bring about the prophecy. He thinks he must have three children because the "dragon has the heads." A specific reference to Aegon and his sisters.

While I basically agree with everything you have written here, I don't think these conclusions logically dictate that Rhaegar was "trying to recreate Aegon and his sister" or that he thought Lyanna would have a female child or that he intended to name that child Visenya. Yes, I think he probably thought that the family sigil was a sign that if the dragon has three heads, the three heads would be Targs and likely siblings (but not necessarily, as he once thought himself to be TPTWP). I just don't think that thought process equates to "re-creating" the 3 conquering Targs or an intention to name his three children after those three Targs.

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While I basically agree with everything you have written here, I don't think these conclusions logically dictate that Rhaegar was "trying to recreate Aegon and his sister" or that he thought Lyanna would have a female child or that he intended to name that child Visenya. Yes, I think he probably thought that the family sigil was a sign that if the dragon has three heads, the three heads would be Targs and likely siblings (but not necessarily, as he once thought himself to be TPTWP). I just don't think that thought process equates to "re-creating" the 3 conquering Targs or an intention to name his three children after those three Targs.

 

I started to pain Rhaegar as a male version of Melissadre and he misunderstood everything and changed his mind pretty quickly. 

This is actually possible, because the prophecies are very misleading.  

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I started to pain Rhaegar as a male version of Melissadre and he misunderstood everything and changed his mind pretty quickly. 

This is actually possible, because the prophecies are very misleading.  

Well, yes, but Rhaegar does not have any magical powers. Mel uses her powers to try to find AAR and continually misinterprets her own visions. Rhaegar merely is arrogant and thinks he is smart enough to figure it out through research and hard thinking and writing back and forth with Aemon. And Rhaegar gets most of the interpretations wrong -- and keeps trying and keeps changing  him mind -- but it appears that the one thing he got right was the need to have a child with Lyanna which I believe he would not have done but for the prophecy (TV show notwithstanding -- even if the action is going to be similar in both -- the motives are likely to be quite different between the books and the show). So by pursuing the prophecy, Rhaegar set in motion events that brought down his entire family and dynasty -- but I believe he did succeed in fathering TPTWP.

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