Do the Mountain Clans Abandon Stannis?

[Ser Pounce FTW]

Stannis barely knows Ned, and cant read his PoV chapters, like tou can. He barely knows the guy.

 

Stannis definitely knows Ned and he knows Ned is honorable and duty bound. He could definitely have reached out to Ned or responded to Ned's letters. 

 

It really is hard to understand people excusing Stannis' cowardice when Stannis has called so many to die for him. He has been directly responsible for thousands of deaths! Why are these lives not important? Stannis is about the law and his duty. He had a duty to his brother. He had a duty to his king. And there are many things he could have done to protect himself while still doing his duty.

[Sullen]

 

So., honourable that he fathered a bastard eh?

 

Him being so honourable is exactly why him fathering a bastard is a big deal, mate.

 

 

Again STANNIS CANT READ NED'S OR ROBERT'S MIND. He can not predict or trust some people like the readers would

 

He can't, but he doesn't need to.

 

Ned's reputation is well known, even to Stannis.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

 

Saving yourself is the smart thing to do, yes, but it is not the dutiful one.

 

Stannis claims to be all about duty, yet, when his life is on the line, he commits treason and flees.

 

Stannis chose his brother over his King. Will you condemn them for treason as well? :dunno:

 

 

I thought the point of ASOIAF was that blind honour and duty were not always a good thing. We have KG who simply shut their eyes and ears to the King raping his wife or beating his betrothed.

 

Let's see what could have happened had Stannis followed his duty:

 

S: Robert. Cersei has been cheating on yo and your children are actually Jaime's.

R: What? Can you prove it?

S: no... but...

Cersei: How he dares? No King should be insulted like this. Stannis should be arrested.

 

Stannis gets arrested. Jon Arryn steps in and starts to wander around following Stannis' info about the bastards. He gets killed anywhere because we know the reason he died had little to do with Cersei's cheating.

 

Tywin steps in. War. Stannis likely dies in order to prevent a war against Tywin Lannister. Nothing else happens.

[Ser Eric]

 

Him being so honourable is exactly why him fathering a bastard is a big deal, mate.

 

 

That's the point. Give me one reason why Stannis should trust Ned? Him being honourable is no reason to trust Ned. And of course there's the small matter of Ned's daughter being married to Joffrey which cannot be ignored although you are trying your best to.

[Stannis broatheon]

 
Stannis definitely knows Ned and he knows Ned is honorable and duty bound. He could definitely have reached out to Ned or responded to Ned's letters. 
 
It really is hard to understand people excusing Stannis' cowardice when Stannis has called so many to die for him. He has been directly responsible for thousands of deaths! Why are these lives not important? Stannis is about the law and his duty. He had a duty to his brother. He had a duty to his king. And there are many things he could have done to protect himself while still doing his duty.

Stannis barely knows the guy, and answering his letters could make him a traitor if someone took them. Stannis had a duty to his brother, but he thought that he should approach it his way, and telling Jon Arryn was a good idea.
Some people chose to dohis duty to Stannis and others didnt, duty is not everything.

[Sullen]

 

Stannis chose his brother over his King. Will you condemn them for treason as well? :dunno:

 

 

I thought the point of ASOIAF was that blind honour and duty were not always a good thing. We have KG who simply shut their eyes and ears to the King raping his wife or beating his betrothed.

 

Let's see what could have happened had Stannis followed his duty:

 

S: Robert. Cersei has been cheating on yo and your children are actually Jaime's.

R: What? Can you prove it?

S: no... but...

Cersei: How he dares? No King should be insulted like this. Stannis should be arrested.

 

Stannis gets arrested. Jon Arryn steps in and starts to wander around following Stannis' info about the bastards. He gets killed anywhere because we know the reason he died had little to do with Cersei's cheating.

 

Tywin steps in. War. Stannis likely dies in order to prevent a war against Tywin Lannister. Nothing else happens.

 

I was suggesting him telling Robert after Jon died, obviously. Robert's life doesn't appear to be in danger before the Lannisters (supposedly) kill Jon. That is when Stannis should have told Robert.

[Sullen]

 

That's the point. Give me one reason why Stannis should trust Ned? Him being honourable is no reason to trust Ned. And of course there's the small matter of Ned's daughter being married to Joffrey which cannot be ignored although you are trying your best to.

 

1. He's known to be extremely honourable

2. He's known to love Robert as a brother

3. He's known to dislike the Lannisters

4. If he doesn't know about the incest, then his daughter's betrothal to Joffrey means jackshit

[Stannis broatheon]

 
I was suggesting him telling Robert after Jon died, obviously. Robert's life doesn't appear to be in danger before the Lannisters (supposedly) kill Jon. That is when Stannis should have told Robert.

With no evidence, like Jon did and being the one that benefited the most about this, that is absolutly a master plan worthy of Varys and Littlefinger.

[Sullen]

With no evidence, like Jon did and being the one that benefited the most about this, that is absolutly a master plan worthy of Varys and Littlefinger.

 

I agree it likely wouldn't work.

 

But the alternative is treason, and that makes a Stannis "Dutybound" Baratheon a massive hypocrite when he chooses his life over duty and his brother's.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

This is what Stannis knows about Ned Stark:

 

-he's super friends with Robert Baratheon.

-his sister was going to marry Robert.

-he's been named Hand of the King despite he wasn't in KL for the past 16 years.

-his daughter is marrying Joffrey.

-he has a bastard.

 

People say Ned is honourable. As far as Stannis knows, he could also be some sort of social climber :dunno:

[Stannis broatheon]

 
I agree it likely wouldn't work.
 
But the alternative is treason, and that makes a Stannis "Dutybound" Baratheon a massive hypocrite when he chooses his life over duty and his brother's.

He commited treason before during RR, to save his brother. He could do it again

[Sullen]

This is what Stannis knows about Ned Stark:

 

-he's super friends with Robert Baratheon.

-his sister was going to marry Robert.

-he's been named Hand of the King despite he wasn't in KL for the past 16 years.

-his daughter is marrying Joffrey.

-he has a bastard.

 

People say Ned is honourable. As far as Stannis knows, he could also be some sort of social climber :dunno:

 

Except he left King's Landing in anger after Robert forgave the Lannisters for the murder of Elia and her children and refused to punish Jaime for killing Aerys, only to stay in the North for the next 6 years. (Which is far from what an ambitious man would do)

 

He doesn't appear to be a social climber, he seems more like the type of person with a stick in the ass, with a noted disdain for the Lannisters.

[Sullen]

He commited treason before during RR, to save his brother. He could do it again

 

Except this time, treason is against his brother and king.

 

It makes him a traitor, and a hypocrite, but I don't mind, it's part of the character's charm.

[Stannis broatheon]

 
Except he left King's Landing in anger after Robert forgave the Lannisters for the murder of Elia and her children and refused to punish Jaime for killing Aerys, only to stay in the North for the next 6 years. (Which is far from what an ambitious man would do)
 
He doesn't appear to be a social climber, he seems more like the type of person with a stick in the ass, with a noted disdain for the Lannisters.

He knows little about him. He, Ned, may even like Cercei, as a person and may not tolerate that insolence.

[Ser Eric]

 

1. He's known to be extremely honourable

2. He's known to love Robert as a brother

3. He's known to dislike the Lannisters

4. If he doesn't know about the incest, then his daughter's betrothal to Joffrey means jackshit

 

Honourable =/= Trustable. He doesn't know Ned's motives for coming to KL.

 

And he hated the Lannisters so much that he consented to marry his daughter to someone with Lannister blood. For all Stannis knows, Ned wants Sansa to be queen and that's why he took the job.

 

So the betrothal is hugely important.

[Stannis broatheon]

 
Except this time, treason is against his brother and king.
 
It makes him a traitor, and a hypocrite, but I don't mind, it's part of the character's charm.

Davos commited treason against him, he saw it as they right choice, so he forgave him. He may think that he was doing something similar to Davos for Robert

[Ser Eric]

 

Except this time, treason is against his brother and king.

 

It makes him a traitor, and a hypocrite, but I don't mind, it's part of the character's charm.

 

It's not treason if the intent is not there which is clearly the case. Yet you seem to be ignoring everything in the books and seem intent on spinning fan fictions of your own.

[Lion of the West]

I know that I'm late to the party and the discussion is going off-topic, but I thought I should throw in my view of why of the mountain clans might desert Stannis IF they do desert him and Stannis' northern adventure ends in defeat.

 

I think that the events at the Wall might be the reason since with Jon dead the Wildlings could well run wild, and given the earlier evidence for the mistrust the Northmen, including the clans, have for the Wildlings I think its safe to say that with such news many Northmen might be more pressed to see to their homes than fight Bolton, regardless of earlier bravado. Don't mean that everyone will turn and run, I'd expect the Umbers and Manderlys to last, but with the clansmen gone, they might not be enought to undo both Frey and Bolton. 

[JonCon's Red Beard]

 

Except he left King's Landing in anger after Robert forgave the Lannisters for the murder of Elia and her children and refused to punish Jaime for killing Aerys, only to stay in the North for the next 6 years. (Which is far from what an ambitious man would do)

 

He doesn't appear to be a social climber, he seems more like the type of person with a stick in the ass, with a noted disdain for the Lannisters.

 

A lot of people was revolted by that.

 

I'm not saying he believed Ned to be a bad person, only ambitious. There is nothing wrong with that. Rickard Stark was, apparently, ambitious too. Also Hoster Tully. They were not bad men, they only wanted the best for their families and people. As far as Stannis knew, that was what drove Ned's actions. He has zero reasons to believe Ned wants the good of the realm about his own.

[Sullen]

He knows little about him. He, Ned, may even like Cercei, as a person and may not tolerate that insolence.

 

He knows enough about Ned that he distrusts the Lannisters, loves Robert, and is honourable.

 

Thus, he would not be part of a plan to cuckold the King, simple as that.

 

 

 

Honourable =/= Trustable. He doesn't know Ned's motives for coming to KL.

 

And he hated the Lannisters so much that he consented to marry his daughter to someone with Lannister blood. For all Stannis knows, Ned wants Sansa to be queen and that's why he took the job.

 

So the betrothal is hugely important.

 

Joffrey being a Baratheon overrides him being of Lannister descent, obviously. That argument only stands if Ned married Sansa someone actually holding the name "Lannister".

 

 

 

It's not treason if the intent is not there which is clearly the case. Yet you seem to be ignoring everything in the books and seem intent on spinning fan fictions of your own.

 

So, if I desert my King during an attack, I can say that the intent was simply to save my life, and not to desert the King?

 

No, Stannis fleeing while his King is in danger and doing nothing is treason.

 

 

Davos commited treason against him, he saw it as they right choice, so he forgave him. He may think that he was doing something similar to Davos for Robert

 

But... he didn't.

 

He didn't do shit while on Dragonstone, nothing.