Stannis broatheon Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 He knows enough about Ned that he distrusts the Lannisters, loves Robert, and is honourable. Thus, he would not be part of a plan to cuckold the King, simple as that. Joffrey being a Baratheon overrides him being of Lannister descent, obviously. That argument only stands if Ned married Sansa someone actually holding the name "Lannister". So, if I desert my King during an attack, I can say that the intent was simply to save my life, and not to desert the King? No, Stannis fleeing while his King is in danger and doing nothing is treason. But... he didn't. He didn't do shit while on Dragonstone, nothing. Waiting for the right time could be good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullen Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 A lot of people was revolted by that. I'm not saying he believed Ned to be a bad person, only ambitious. There is nothing wrong with that. Rickard Stark was, apparently, ambitious too. Also Hoster Tully. They were not bad men, they only wanted the best for their families and people. As far as Stannis knew, that was what drove Ned's actions. He has zero reasons to believe Ned wants the good of the realm about his own. Ned stays out of politics until Robert actually goes fetch him though, spends 16 years out of the Game of Thrones. That doesn't make him look ambitious, that makes him look close to Robert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullen Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Waiting for the right time could be good enough. His brother's life was in danger. "Waiting for the right time" doesn't cut it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis broatheon Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 His brother's life was in danger. "Waiting for the right time" doesn't cut it. He did not know that Cercei was willing or dare to kill the king Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullen Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 He did not know that Cercei was willing or dare to kill the king She dared "kill" the Hand, and everyday either Robert or Stannis was alive was another day her, her lover, and her children could bite it. Stannis is out of reach, so of course she was going to try to kill Robert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRANDON GREYSTARK Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 No the mountain clans they are in it for their own reasons it is true they want Winerfell and Ned's girl but they hate the Boltons and they want adventure before winter . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Eric Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Joffrey being a Baratheon overrides him being of Lannister descent, obviously. That argument only stands if Ned married Sansa someone actually holding the name "Lannister". It counts for a lot, there's nothing obvious about it. And at that point, Stannis has every reason to wonder whether Ned still hates the lannisters or why he wants to come back south. Is it ambition for himself or perhaps his daughter? Does he want his daughter to be queen one day? Would he still believe him? There are loads of if's here. Stannis has absolutely zero reason to trust Ned and blurt everything out to him. So, if I desert my King during an attack, I can say that the intent was simply to save my life, and not to desert the King? No, Stannis fleeing while his King is in danger and doing nothing is treason. Stannis does not flee during an attack so your point is invalid. Stannis did not even know the immediate danger Robert was in nor the fact that Ned knew about the incest and was meddling with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 No the mountain clans they are in it for their own reasons it is true they want Winerfell and Ned's girl but they hate the Boltons and they want adventure before winter . If they feel their homes and families are threatened by rampaging Wildlings that lust for adventure might suddenly be found elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Eric Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 @Sullen I think your issue with Stannis seems to be that he's something of a hypocrite given he goes on about duty and yet does not do what would have been dutiful? I don't disagree with that point of view. But I do think all of Stannis' actions are entirely logical and sensible even if slightly hypocritical which is why I don't see the need for criticism. I'm going to.withdraw from the thread or at least from the current topic as we're just going around in circles now. Back on topic, I don't think the Northerners have any love for Stannis but I do not see them betraying him. All the conspiracy are rather baseless in my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Stannis does not flee during an attack so your point is invalid. Yeah, he does. While his men were dying he escaped the Battle of Blackwater. Not that I blame him, but clearly he does flee. Stannis did not even know the immediate danger Robert was in nor the fact that Ned knew about the incest and was meddling with it. He thought the Hand of the King was assassinated by the Lannisters, of course the King was in danger. Yet he kept quiet for almost a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 And the Mountain Clans care about King's Landing politics and Stannis's honor exactly why? They'll support Stannis as long as they have common cause, namely the Lannister-favored Boltons usurping the leadership of the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpoke Martin Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Are people on this board so moronically biased that they don't see just how different Stannis is compared to anyone else from the south?? The guy comes to the aid of the Nights Watch, something that NOBODY from the north bothered to do. Stannis is helping get rid of the Ironborn and is restoring castles to their rightful houses. Stannis is trying to destroy the Boltons who completely betrayed their own countrymen. Stannis is an absolute godsend for the north, this guy comes north with hardly any men to help the north. If anyone from the north plans on betraying Stannis, it will prove that northerners are full of shit and have ZERO honor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Walker Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Are people on this board so moronically biased that they don't see just how different Stannis is compared to anyone else from the south?? The guy comes to the aid of the Nights Watch, something that NOBODY from the north bothered to do. Stannis is helping get rid of the Ironborn and is restoring castles to their rightful houses. Stannis is trying to destroy the Boltons who completely betrayed their own countrymen. Stannis is an absolute godsend for the north, this guy comes north with hardly any men to help the north. LOL. Remember, if the Starks had been the ruling house, they would have saved the Night's watch. Something they have done for thousands of years. I know this line is from the show but it fits Stannis perfectly Davos: The King only wants what is right for the seven kingdoms Jon: As long as he is ruling them. I respect him because he saved the Night's Watch from the Wildlings and caring about the Whitewalkers but yeah, the other stuff is mostly for his own benefit. If there was a choice between taking King's Landing(say, Blackwater) or preventing the Wildlings from attacking the wall, which one would Stannis take? Stannis fanatics might say the Wall, but everyone knows otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 The guy comes to the aid of the Nights Watch, something that NOBODY from the north bothered to do. He had nowhere else to go. He was done in the South, the North was leaderless and he was hoping too take advantage of that. Stannis is helping get rid of the Ironborn and is restoring castles to their rightful houses. Nope. He offered Arnolf Karstark Winterfell. Stannis is trying to destroy the Boltons who completely betrayed their own countrymen. He's trying to destroy them because they support the Crown. Should Roose proclaim Stannis the true King of Westeros and offer him fealty all would be forgiven. Stannis is an absolute godsend for the north, this guy comes north with hardly any men to help the north. Not necessarily. Defitley a godsend for the Nights Watch. The people of the North are still at war, while Roose was in the process of bringing peace to the North. If anyone from the north plans on betraying Stannis, it will prove that northerners are full of shit and have ZERO honor. Possibly, but they dont really owe him anything either. The recapture of Deepwood Motte had far more to do with the Mountain Clans than it did with Stannis, if he the Boltons are beat it will have more to do with the 4,000 Northmen with Stannis rather than his men. Stannis has his own motives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis broatheon Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 LOL. Remember, if the Starks had been the ruling house, they would have saved the Night's watch. Something they have done for thousands of years. I know this line is from the show but it fits Stannis perfectly Davos: The King only wants what is right for the seven kingdoms Jon: As long as he is ruling them. I respect him because he saved the Night's Watch from the Wildlings and caring about the Whitewalkers but yeah, the other stuff is mostly for his own benefit. If there was a choice between taking King's Landing(say, Blackwater) or preventing the Wildlings from attacking the wall, which one would Stannis take? Stannis fanatics might say the Wall, but everyone knows otherwise. Stannis takes seriously the Others due to Davos. If he takes the throne he would probably go himself with Dragonglass, a huge army and Maesters with him and they Others would have to build another wall to protect themselfs against Stannis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaughingStormBaratheon Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Worth more than the man who abandoned his duty to his king and brother when it suited him at least. The Starks have done far more for the north than Stannis ever will. Stannis would burn them if he felt that would benefit him. The Boltons kicked out the the Ironborn from Moat Cailin. Should they be loyal to the Boltons? I wouldn't bother arguing with this type of logic guys. You already answered her points specifically twice, but heshe just wants to fight. Some people just can't contain their butthurt hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 I wouldn't bother arguing with this type of logic guys. You already answered her points specifically twice, but heshe just wants to fight. Some people just can't contain their butthurt hate. Welcome to be a Dany fan :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannim Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 If, or let's say when the northern mountain clans find out that "Arya" or Jeyne Poole is a fake, do they abandon Stannis? A better, revised question might be, 'What causes the Mountain Clans to abandon Stannis?' As described so far, the Clans are tough, rough, yet honorable, and set in their ways. Tradition and the Old Gods. They gave their word and allegiance to Stannis, to fight be his side, under his orders, in retaking Winterfell and defeating the Boltons. Least that has been inferred by discussions about off-scene events when Stannis went to the Clans. Yet we the reader know an individual Clansmen ran into Bran n company. Popular theory is, and decent assumption, at least one clan, if not entire group, know of one still living Stark roams the North at that time. They still declared for Stannis. The status of fArya I doubt will sway the Clans one bit. They have their own sense of honor, and gave their word to fight for Stannis against Bolton. Nor do I believe the Clans are part of a coordinated plan or conspiracy, per the GNC. They're referenced as too independent, almost separate from, the rest of the North. So, what action might Stannis take that would cause them to break their pledge and abandon him. I'd say the burning of a weirwood tree as sacrifice to R'hillor, a decidedly foreign god, as pushed for by Stannis southeron forces, might be enough to insult the Clans into breaking their oath. Cut off some traitors heads before the weirwood, that's traditional in the North. Harming the tree, or worse, destroying one/them to appease a foreign god? The teaser chapter for WoW hints that might occur, and in my opinion, would be a grave insult to any Northmen whom follow and believe in the Old Gods. Northmen like the Mountain Clans, whom are best among Stannis forces in dealing with the winter. Before the Battle of Winterfell, Stannis will burn the weirwood tree, with sacrifices. In the morning, he wakes to find the Mountain Clans have vanished into the snows and blizzard, along with a goodly number of other Northmen. Least, that's my supposition, based on the OP question, revised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caspoi Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Winter's Cold@ You keep going on how Stannis lost the Battle of Blackwater Bay. I get it, Stannis lost a battle, Robb lost a war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Cold Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Winter's Cold@ You keep going on how Stannis lost the Battle of Blackwater Bay. I get it, Stannis lost a battle, Robb lost a war. Stannis lost a war as well. That's why he's not on the Iron Throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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