Prince Lewyn's paramour identity

[Lord Wraith]

His paramor was Joana Lannister. It is known

 

Did Tywin even get to sleep with his wife? There seems to be a line at this point.

[Good Guy Garlan]

Are you sure it wasn't Genna?

Yeah, I could see that, especially if the theories about her and Black Walder are true. But was she really a "rare beauty" in her youth?

I like the Olenna angle, but I also wonder if maybe Arianne was just blowing hot air and the paramour was actually a dude, as in Lyn Corbray, and him killing Lewyn was out of jealousy or something like that, a la what's-his-face Rhaenyra's husband and his lover.

[winterfellsedai]

I thank you. It has been a very long while since I have come across something interesting and new about me friends in ASOIAF. That was fun reading...Sound a downright correct to me.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Hat's off to you good Ser.Great post. 

 

If Prince Lewyn cuckolded Luthor Tyrell with Olenna, this could have major implications.

 

Let's look at the descriptions and eye colors of Olennas kids and Tyrell features. This may be why Willas Tyrell isn't introduced yet. Both Willas and Oberyn are in wheelchairs. The only two in the series.

 

#TheFlowersThatWasPromised

I think OP's idea was that the affair was before Olenna and Luthor got married, but you bring up a good point.  Three of Mace's children have the standard Tyrell coloring, but we don't know about Willas, who could take after the Hightower side.  

 

What we really need though is the descriptions for any of Mace's siblings.  I just checked the wiki, and Mace had two sisters.  Janna married Ser Jon Fossoway, no description in the wiki but she is in Margaery's retinue so there could be something in the books.  Mina married Paxter Redwyne, again no description. The only info about the sisters' children is that Horras and Hobber both have orange hair, and all three children have freckles.  Nothing jumps out as remotely Martell-like.

 

I think you mean Willas and Doran.  But I don't recall a wheelchair being mentioned for Willas.  I think he just has a bad limp from his jousting injury, whereas Doran has gout.  No connection there.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Yeah, I could see that, especially if the theories about her and Black Walder are true. But was she really a "rare beauty" in her youth?

I like the Olenna angle, but I also wonder if maybe Arianne was just blowing hot air and the paramour was actually a dude, as in Lyn Corbray, and him killing Lewyn was out of jealousy or something like that, a la what's-his-face Rhaenyra's husband and his lover.

 

Genna is considered a handsome woman now, even though she's grown stout.  In her youth...think Cersei (who is undeniably gorgeous/stunning) but with a much better personality.  Lannisters are generally good-looking people.

 

I don't really credit Arianne with enough creativity to make that up.  As far as I know Daemon was only into women.  And Aemon One-Eye hated his guts, so there was likely no affair there. 

[Visenya Stark]

OP, this is a very well thought out theory. I don't fully believe it but nevertheless, it was an interesting read and it does seem plausible enough. :)  

[Lord Wraith]

Yeah, I could see that, especially if the theories about her and Black Walder are true. But was she really a "rare beauty" in her youth?

I like the Olenna angle, but I also wonder if maybe Arianne was just blowing hot air and the paramour was actually a dude, as in Lyn Corbray, and him killing Lewyn was out of jealousy or something like that, a la what's-his-face Rhaenyra's husband and his lover.

 

It's possible but unlikely.  Most men wouldn't call a man a great beauty and Barristan might not be as cool with a male paramour to a female one.  There are certainly other possiblities on who the paramour could have been but I have gone with the clues I have found.

[Visenya Stark]

 

Genna is considered a handsome woman now, even though she's grown stout.  In her youth...think Cersei (who is undeniably gorgeous/stunning) but with a much better personality.  Lannisters are generally good-looking people.

 

I don't really credit Arianne with enough creativity to make that up.  As far as I know Daemon was only into women.  And Aemon One-Eye hated his guts, so there was likely no affair there. 

I believe Good Guy Garlan is talking about Laenor Velaryon (Rhaenyra's first husband) and his lover. 

[Good Guy Garlan]

Genna is considered a handsome woman now, even though she's grown stout.  In her youth...think Cersei (who is undeniably gorgeous/stunning) but with a much better personality.  Lannisters are generally good-looking people.
 
I don't really credit Arianne with enough creativity to make that up.  As far as I know Daemon was only into women.  And Aemon One-Eye hated his guts, so there was likely no affair there.

I meant Laenor Velaryon getting killed by his lover Qarl Correy, that could parallel Lyn killing Lewyn. But I don't know, it'd feel like a weird misdirection by GRRM. I like the Olenna or Genna theories better.

[DMC]

Ugh. I'm on vacation hence posting on my iPad and I wanted to quote the statement in the OP that basically said since she's been mentioned twice in two different books her ID must be important. Totally disagree with that premise. Anyway, if she is someone we know, OT seems to be the most plausible candidate, so I agree with ya there.

[bent branch]

A mistress is a whore on long-term employment. A paramour is an actual lover, not something based on money.

 

Um, no. The two words are synonyms.

[Daendrew]

I think OP's idea was that the affair was before Olenna and Luthor got married, but you bring up a good point.  Three of Mace's children have the standard Tyrell coloring, but we don't know about Willas, who could take after the Hightower side.  

 

What we really need though is the descriptions for any of Mace's siblings.  I just checked the wiki, and Mace had two sisters.  Janna married Ser Jon Fossoway, no description in the wiki but she is in Margaery's retinue so there could be something in the books.  Mina married Paxter Redwyne, again no description. The only info about the sisters' children is that Horras and Hobber both have orange hair, and all three children have freckles.  Nothing jumps out as remotely Martell-like.

 

I think you mean Willas and Doran.  But I don't recall a wheelchair being mentioned for Willas.  I think he just has a bad limp from his jousting injury, whereas Doran has gout.  No connection there.

 

Yes Willas and Doran. Typo.

 

I was thinking about how Oberyn was blamed but not blamed by Willas for his crippling and I wrote his name instead. That is a curious thing GRRM put out.

[Lord Wraith]

Ugh. I'm on vacation hence posting on my iPad and I wanted to quote the statement in the OP that basically said since she's been mentioned twice in two different books her ID must be important. Totally disagree with that premise. Anyway, if she is someone we know, OT seems to be the most plausible candidate, so I agree with ya there.

 

Its kind of playing off the rule of three premises but the Dornish have only been a presence in the last two books. I expect we might learn something new in TWOW.  Well I'm glad part of it makes sense to you. Enjoy your vacation.

[DMC]

Thanks! Also, what is the rule of three premises?

[Lord Wraith]

Thanks! Also, what is the rule of three premises?

 

https://writingpeterkaptein.wordpress.com/2013/10/14/writing-foreshadowing-climaxes-and-the-law-of-3/

 

“All major events must have at least two moments of foreshadowing”

1: The “rationale” behind the law of three

There is a simple rational behind this “law”.

1. People forget — People remember roughly 30% of what they read and before reaching your moment of climax they might already forgot one or two foreshadows you created.
2. Two is the beginning of a pattern — One event is nothing, two starts to become a pattern.
3. More than three becomes a risk — You like your climax to be a surprise. If you foreshadow your major event(s) too much, these events become predictable. After foreshadow #4 people will start wondering when that major event finally will occur. I usually start skipping pages and chapters at that point.

Basically in my mind mention something twice and it could be a pattern and mention it three times and its important.

[Lord Wraith]

I like it. :) I'm not sure what weight it will hold on the story, (perhaps that's explained in Part II?), but it seems to fit. Good job, OP!

 

What precisely do you mean by "weight it will hold in the story?" Basically this first theory is step in figuring out whatever plans/if any Doran has been making.  Need to start small but I think that the Martell and Tyrells are working closer than people think. Not Mace obviously but Doran and Olenna plotting I can certainly see that.

 

I thank you. It has been a very long while since I have come across something interesting and new about me friends in ASOIAF. That was fun reading...Sound a downright correct to me.

 

Thanks for praise.

[Mithras]

If a theory is confirmed in the future books, it should either explain an important past mystery to tie the loose ends or it should contribute to advance the plot forward. (For some theories we can have both).

 

I really do not think that the identity of Prince Lewyn’s paramour is an important mystery that needs to be explained.

 

So, how can this theory advance the plot if it is confirmed?

[Lord Wraith]

If a theory is confirmed in the future books, it should either explain an important past mystery to tie the loose ends or it should contribute to advance the plot forward. (For some theories we can have both).

 

I really do not think that the identity of Prince Lewyn’s paramour is an important mystery that needs to be explained.

 

So, how can this theory advance the plot if it is confirmed?

 

This at least for me is the first part that gives us hints into Doran and Oberyn's plan.  As I will get to in part 2 I think the Tyrell's and Martell's are working together to undermine the current regime.  Note when I say the Tyrells I mean Olenna and maybe Willas.  Mace is clearly riding the Lion off a cliff.  

 

I working with the smaller ideas before working my way up.  If Lewyn's paramour wasn't significant then why keep bringing it up?

[Roddy Darwin]

If a theory is confirmed in the future books, it should either explain an important past mystery to tie the loose ends or it should contribute to advance the plot forward. (For some theories we can have both).
 
Snip
 
So, how can this theory advance the plot if it is confirmed?

I see that way of thinking a lot around lately, and honestly I don't get where it's coming from.

How does Rhaella/Bonifer advance the plot? How does Bella being Bobby's bastard advance the plot? How does Naerys only getting pregnant when Aegon IV was mistressless advance the plot? Dunk's descendants?

They're little, secondary mysteries, or easter eggs of sorts. They give depth to the story, gives us readers some things to think about, they're part of what make the books so great and interesting to discuss.

And there are PLENTY already. I don't see why it's suddenly become out-of-fashion to discuss anything that, no matter how solid the evidence, has nothing to do with the "grand scheme of things". Not every hidden gem in the books is about prophecy or the War for the Dawn II or the Iron Throne.

Besides, OP explicitly stated this was the first part in the series, and just a few posts back, he said he hoped to tie this into Doran's plans. So he is working on weaving it into advancing the plot (even tho, again, I don't think that should be a necessity and it's a shame that people now assume so)

Also, Lady B and falcotron, who's the third lady you have in mind? I'm trying to think of other likely candidates (that we've met) apart from Olenna and Genna, but I'm drawing a blank.


Also, [obligatory "it was Old Nan!" joke].

[Lord Wraith]

I see that way of thinking a lot around lately, and honestly I don't get where it's coming from.

How does Rhaella/Bonifer advance the plot? How does Bella being Bobby's bastard advance the plot? How does Naerys only getting pregnant when Aegon IV was mistressless advance the plot? Dunk's descendants?

They're little, secondary mysteries, or easter eggs of sorts. They give depth to the story, gives us readers some things to think about, they're part of what make the books so great and interesting to discuss.

And there are PLENTY already. I don't see why it's suddenly become out-of-fashion to discuss anything that, no matter how solid the evidence, has nothing to do with the "grand scheme of things". Not every hidden gem in the books is about prophecy or the War for the Dawn II or the Iron Throne.

Besides, OP explicitly stated this was the first part in the series, and just a few posts back, he said he hoped to tie this into Doran's plans. So he is working on weaving it into advancing the plot (even tho, again, I don't think that should be a necessity and it's a shame that people now assume so)

Also, Lady B and falcotron, who's the third lady you have in mind? I'm trying to think of other likely candidates (that we've met) apart from Olenna and Genna, but I'm drawing a blank.


Also, [obligatory "it was Old Nan!" joke].

 

Thanks for that.  I did say its one of the minor mysteries at the beginning of the theory, this certainly isn't R+L=J.

 

As for other possible paramours: Joanna Lannister(apparently), Ashara Dayne, Arys Oakheart and a few others.  Some I will discuss in part 2 but I thought people wouldn't want that much reading the first time around.  People love/hate theories but hate reading.

 

Also here are two good discussion on Lewyn's paramour that happened in the past and have now been added at the bottom of the theory in case anyone wants some further reading on the discussion.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/2d52hd/

 

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/79826-prince-lewyns-paramour/