On the show, are Sansa and Jon destined for each other's arms?

[Le Cygne]

They didn't know Bran was alive. I think Bran ends up in Winterfell. The series ends as it began, with a hint that winter is over, and spring is to come.

I don't think Jon steps down any time soon, but he holds the place for Bran. Jon would be the best king of Westeros, but Bran *is* Winterfell.

[Lord Friendzone]

16 minutes ago, Bear Claw said:

I am not sure. In ADWD Bran goes back to his chamber and has visions. I don't think he had physical contact with the roots. 

So far they only show that Bran can enter past with weirwood tree. Perhaps he needs it or maybe he can do it on on his own. Isaac talked about that he needs to tell Jon and of course about white walkers.

[WolfQueenArya]

7 hours ago, GhostNymeria said:

Why didn't the showrunners start to present this romance this season then? And please don't tell me Jon and Sansa are secretly in love at this point. Sansa have been keeping important information from Jon half the season. That's a set up for a romance?

They clearly foreshadowed a political marriage between Dany and someone else in this episode. The same episode Jon was declared KITN. What relevant male characters are left for her to marry in the show other than Jon? Tyrion? Jaime? Bran (lol)?

So Arya is the Valonqar and she's going to be wrapped up in the Dany/Lannister conflict next season? She said to Jaquen that she's Arya Stark of Winterfell and she's going home. Bran is giong to Winterfell and so is Arya. 

Yes what are Jon/Sansa/Littlefinger doing next season? Are you saying the Northern storyline will be isolated from Dany's conquest, the Riverlands, Bran, Arya etc, and their only story next season will be a romance at Winterfell? Bran's "mark" will probably bring the wall down. If the wall comes down in the last episode, then Bran can't tell Jon his true parentage. I highly doubt Jon and Sansa is going to fall in love while they think they are sibling.

That's the core conflict of a traditional romantic plot line? Give me an example. And if Sansa would even consider a marriage with Littlefinger at this point would mean she's as power hungry as him, which would ruin her character for me (which the show already kind of has). Jon is the opposite of powerhungry. They would not be a very romantic couple, as you are suggesting.

Yet Jon and Sansa think they are siblings and certainly not in love. Sansa holding important information from her brother half the season, the person she should trust above all others at that point, is not build-up for a romantic plot. It's build-up for a rivalry, like both showrunners and actors have said. Robb's will in the books will probably make Jon KINT and disinherit Sansa (her marriage to to Tyrion was the big reason Robb decided to make the will in the first place). Sansa and Littlefinger may or may not be in Winterfell when this happens since, unlike in the show, the northern houses will be behind Jon the battle and the Vale army won't be as necessary it was in the show. Robb's Will will (sorry lol) probably cause some conflict between Jon and Sansa/Littlefinger in the books. They didn't have the will in the show, so D&D had to have the northern lords illogically ignore Sansa when crowning Jon. This is set up as conflict/rivalry for next season, not romance.

But this is under the assumption that Jon and Sansa will be isolated from Dany and Arya the whole season. 

But in the books and in ADWD particulary, Martin have already shown something more personal Jon would be willing to fight for: Arya. He broke his wows for her, not his other siblings. His last dying though was of Arya. That's got to have some meaning on the future of his character, romance or not. He hade no emotional reaction on the Sansa/Tyrion marriage. This is the show though, so they could switch. But you have implied you think Martin is planning Jon/Sansa. Then why not have Jon break his wows for a fake Sansa, have Ygritte remind him of Sansa instead of Arya etc? 

Arya could reach Winterfell within the first episodes of next season (Varys traveled from Sunspear to Mereen within the second half of the last episode, and Littlefinger from Winterfell to Kings Landing within an episode). Then you have two seasons, fewer episodes or not, to build up a romance. Jon and Sansa's plot this season haven't been romantic, it's been distrust between them. Jon and Arya will trust eachother 100% from the moment they reunite. In fact, Jon would be the only person Arya would trust 100%, unlike Sansa who didn't trust him. 

Anyway, I actually think the show is going for Dany/Jon regardless what happens in the books.

I have to say Ilove your post and I agree with you! 

[GhostNymeria]

7 minutes ago, WolfQueenArya said:

I have to say Ilove your post and I agree with you! 

Thanks

[a black swan]

1 hour ago, WolfQueenArya said:

8 hours ago, GhostNymeria said:

You shut it DOWN. *applauds*

 

 

[Commander Jon Snow]

13 hours ago, wildwood said:

It will be Jon and Dany in the end. HBO and D&D have been hinting at it for years. Think of all the photo shoots (Entertainment Weekly, Vanity Fair, etc..) featuring just the two of them together (when the characters have never met in the show or books). The main image for season 4 is just Jon and Dany and hey, she's fire in the story and he's ice so thematically it's a done deal. Things might turn out differently in the books, but the show from the beginning has been heading towards a Dany and Jon coupling. Whether it will be a love match or more political we shall see. 

Yeah, they've been playing up the Jon-Dany parallel heavily over the years. And they were putting the two together in all kinds of material even though the characters never met. And remember Davos and Tormound talking about how Jon isn't a King the episode before he gets named KitN? These guys aren't exactly the most subtle writers

 

Dany saying she needs to get married for alliances the same episode Jon is KitN is barely even foreshadowing. That's straight up telegraphing what's going to happen

[Lady Ren]

4 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

The showrunners are saying over and over and over again, they are brother and sister.

In a short time (there was nothing before as they noted), the showrunners featured them in a brother and sister themed episode, and they keep saying they see each other as brother and sister, sibling rivalry, lack of trust, and jealousy and anger.

The contrast will be when they are with other characters who they don't see as brother and sister, and/or have all of these conflicts with. Several much anticipated reunions/meetings with other characters that will go quite differently are ahead for both.

Jon and Sansa are still known to others and to each other as brother and sister, but we know differently now. They were reunited in 6x04 alongside Theon and Yara (who groped each other a while back) and Marg and Loras who shared the same lover/husband for some time. Those two pairs were/are portrayed as rock-solid, despite those elements. 

My point is that by being asked to question their loyalty (i.e.: "Jon needs to watch out for Sansa") it's possible that we are really being asked to question what they mean to each other. They're family - that's undeniable. 

On one hand, the storyline we are promised- betrayal, sibling rivalry - it could be the endpoint. It could be the bittersweet ending George promised: with one Stark winning and another losing. 

But if their tension is only leading to rivalry, then Sansa would lose. She would lose Stannis style. Just for the sake of the narrative. The writers are actually pretty damn good at what they do, and I just don't feel the danger where they are telling me to feel the danger. I feared the Faith Militant, but then Cersei bombed the holy place.

My guess is that Jon's doubting Sansa could be what causes problems for him. She's very reserved and quick to retreat. Just one side-long look in hers and Littlefinger's direction would be enough to seal her mouth the hell shut. Either way, Jon's not Ned. He "killed the boy" and he's a bit of a wild card now. 

What does Jon even want by the way? He's not just a weapon, not anymore. Everyone is talking about Sansa's expression in the King in the North scene, but Jon's was just as interesting. He looked a little incredulous, determined, but also like he had just discovered a whole new world. 

 

 

[Le Cygne]

And my point is, there's broader story to consider. The showrunners are not presenting this as the Jon and Sansa Hour.

They were swapped into this story for other characters, until yet other characters could be in place for yet more story.

There's been a lot of series long buildup toward certain meetings and reunions, and that's going to be big, and it's just ahead.

[Lady Ren]

I'm considering the broader story. Or atleast I think I am. It's not the Jon and Sansa hour by any means, but that doesn't mean one or the other, or the entire northern storyline, is just a placeholder. It's an important aspect of the story, no matter where their ultimate royalties lie. These two aren't just chilling in the North until fate arrives. Not unless it arrives within the first fifteen minutes of the next season. They'll be making moves and setting their course until then, and possibly after that too. 

At this point, almost anything is possible. 

That's what makes this show unique. 

 

[Bear Claw]

43 minutes ago, Lady Ren said:

Jon and Sansa are still known to others and to each other as brother and sister, but we know differently now. They were reunited in 6x04 alongside Theon and Yara (who groped each other a while back) and Marg and Loras who shared the same lover/husband for some time. Those two pairs were/are portrayed as rock-solid, despite those elements. 

 

 

 

I forgot about Theon/Yara and Margery/Loras. Of course there is Jaimie/Cersi, and I would include Dany/Viserys (creepy on the show more obvious in the books). 

[Bear Claw]

15 minutes ago, Lady Ren said:

I'm considering the broader story. Or atleast I think I am. It's not the Jon and Sansa hour by any means, but that doesn't mean one or the other, or the entire northern storyline, is just a placeholder. It's an important aspect of the story, no matter where their ultimate royalties lie. These two aren't just chilling in the North until fate arrives. Not unless it arrives within the first fifteen minutes of the next season. They'll be making moves and setting their course until then, and possibly after that too. 

At this point, almost anything is possible. 

That's what makes this show unique. 

 

Also, any plot line that involves LF is the broader story. He is not a POV character, but he is responsible for much of the conflict in the story. 

[Le Cygne]

There's nothing romantic between these two characters. Nor the other brother and sister pairs, other than Jaime and Cersei, which is toxic.

(Also, Viserys pinching Dany's breast is hardly a basis for a romance. Margaery never had anything to do with Loras. Asha momentarily conned Theon to put him in his place.)

[Lady Ren]

3 hours ago, Bear Claw said:

Also, any plot line that involves LF is the broader story. He is not a POV character, but he is responsible for much of the conflict in the story. 

How do you see his end happening?

I'm curious when and how. Timing is key I guess. Also, I don't see him being sentenced for his crimes, just getting caught up and becoming collateral. But that's just my wishful thinking. 

[Bear Claw]

Just now, Lady Ren said:

How do you see his end happening?

I'm curious when and how. I don't see him being sentenced for his crimes, just getting caught up and becoming collateral. 

I think Sansa will kill him eventually, probably by pushing him off one of the battlements at Winterfell. She almost pushed Joffrey, Aunt Lysa was pushed by LF, and then Myranda was pushed by Theon. That is just my opinion.

[a black swan]

4 minutes ago, Lady Ren said:

How do you see his end happening?

I'm curious when and how. I don't see him being sentenced for his crimes, just getting caught up and becoming collateral. 

LF will plot against Jon and use Sansa - or trick her into thinking she was playing him now that he knows she won't willingly follow. LF will fail and leave Winterfell with the Vale army just in time. Like he always does.  

Sansa might see Lady's fate visited upon herself with a Stark (Jon or Arya) passing some Northern justice just like Ned had to.

[Future Null Infinity]

3 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

LF will plot against Jon and use Sansa - or trick her into thinking she was playing him now that he knows she won't willingly follow. LF will fail and leave Winterfell with the Vale army just in time. Like he always does.  

Sansa might see Lady's fate visited upon herself with a Stark (Jon or Arya) passing some Northern justice just like Ned had to.

Not like that, D&D are playing with your emotions, she will play the double agent for her brother, she will go with the plans of LF of taking the north from Jon until he will reveal everything and then she will kill him

and some Arya's fans are whising Sansa's death since 1998, good luck with that

[a black swan]

10 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said:

Not like that, D&D are playing with your emotions, she will play the double agent for her brother, she will go with the plans of LF of taking the north from Jon until he will reveal everything and then she will kill him

and some Arya's fans are whising Sansa's death since 1998, good luck with that

No one is wishing it sweetie. 

Lets hope your very precise dream comes true tho.

 

[Future Null Infinity]

Just now, DutchArya said:

No one is wishing it sweetie. 

Lets hope you're very precises dream comes true tho.

 

dodge the first opinion, dodge, dodge, each morning since 1998 some Arya's fans put GRRM picture in front and pray "please, kill Sansa, please"

[Lady Ren]

Honestly I think Arya Sansa will be the best Stark reunion. 

Could be wishful thinking, but yeah. Sisters fight - it's what we do. At the end of the day they make up Frozen style. Because they love each other. 

They're all grown up. They're capable of patience and understanding. And they're grateful for the right things. 

Life's not a competition. Look at Tyrion and Jamie. Shouldn't Tyrion just despise Jamie? I'm sure he did when he was younger, and I'm sure Jamie deserved it. Now they got each others backs. 

 

[Winter's Cold]

43 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said:

dodge the first opinion, dodge, dodge, each morning since 1998 some Arya's fans put GRRM picture in front and pray "please, kill Sansa, please"

Sansa doesn't seem to care about anyone from her family. Her cruelty to Arya and coldness to Jon in the backstory. Her betrayal of Arya in the first season. Her abandonment of Rickon and Jon this season. Her constant decisions to side with her manipulators against her family (Cersei, Littlefinger). I could see Jon or Arya dying for each other. It's not something that I would ever envision Sansa doing. 

I don't want her to die though. I don't think that would accomplish much besides pointless tragedy. I just want her to go to the Vale and stay there. Let the family members who actually care about each other stay in Winterfell.