A+J=T v.7

[UnmaskedLurker]

RT--

 

JM took these from other posts sent them to me, and  then I only lightly edited -- I guess it needs a bit more editing.

 

Thanks for the corrections, I will sort through them and fix the post.

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

The third quote, the wise is not a reflection on Viserion. Daenerys is speaking about the sellsword companies, not the dragon.

When Dany passed his eyes came open, two pools of molten gold. His horns were gold as well, and the scales that ran down his back from head to tail.

The gold makes me think of Lannisters...

[Lost Melnibonean]

When Dany passed his eyes came open, two pools of molten gold. His horns were gold as well, and the scales that ran down his back from head to tail.
The gold makes me think of Lannisters...

Hmm... I've been arguing for some time that Tyrion will betray Daenerys for gold...

[Tinker Tanner]

I always thought Danys vision in the house of undying was meant to represent Tyrion but she got it wrong. The white lion running through grass as tall as a man one. It could be a small lion and this makes the grass seem tall to her.

[Lost Melnibonean]

I always thought Danys vision in the house of undying was meant to represent Tyrion but she got it wrong. The white lion running through grass as tall as a man one. It could be a small lion and this makes the grass seem tall to her.

Near the end of that chapter, Daenerys sees six more visions in the House of the Undying Ones...

Faster and faster the visions came, one after the other, until it seemed as if the very air had come alive. Shadows whirled and danced inside a tent, boneless and terrible. A little girl ran barefoot toward a big house with a red door. Mirri Maz Duur shrieked in the flames, a dragon bursting from her brow. Behind a silver horse the bloody corpse of a naked man bounced and dragged. A white lion ran through grass taller than a man. Beneath the Mother of Mountains, a line of naked crones crept from a great lake and knelt shivering before her, their grey heads bowed.

The last six visions before the final one to which she succumbs represent: 1) Trying to save Drogo upon whom she was nearly totally dependent; 2) her longing for the sheltered days of her early childhood; 3) her dragons hatching; 4) the punishment exacted on the man sent by the usurper to kill her and her unborn son, the action that convinced Drogo to begin preparations for an invasion of the Seven Kingdoms; 5) a prized beast presumably being stalked by Dothraki; and 6) the wise women of the Dothraki paying her homage.

The first two of these six show her dependent on others. The second two show her dragons hatching and her acting the way the blood of dragon would be expected to act. The third two show what appears to be happening at the end of Dance, where Jhaqo finds her in the Dothraki Sea, and, perhaps, what will happen in Winds, when Daenerys, the mother of dragons, and Drogon unite the khalasars to mount the world.

[Jô Maltese]

UL, where you say aWoIaF, you mean tWoIaF. aWoIaF is the app, not the book.

 

 

I don't see what hint you think to see in this:

 

Other Targaryens sharing traits with Tyrion

 

aCoK JON I
“That was Maekar, Aemon's father. The new king summoned all his sons to court and would have made Aemon part of his councils, but he refused, saying that would usurp the place rightly belonging to the Grand Maester. Instead he served at the keep of his eldest brother, another Daeron. Well, that one died too, leaving only a feeble-witted daughter as heir. Some pox he caught from a whore, I believe. The next brother was Aerion."
"Aerion the Monstrous?”

 

(...)

The whoremonging of Daeron...

[Jô Maltese]

RT--

 

JM took these from other posts sent them to me, and  then I only lightly edited -- I guess it needs a bit more editing.

 

Thanks for the corrections, I will sort through them and fix the post.

Yes, the problem is that my edits were not kept in the PM format

[UnmaskedLurker]

Yes, the problem is that my edits were not kept in the PM format

Please review the current version in the OP and let me know if you think any further editing or corrections would be appropriate. I tried my best to clean it up a little.

[Jô Maltese]

Please review the current version in the OP and let me know if you think any further editing or corrections would be appropriate. I tried my best to clean it up a little.

Right - just realised there was a full editor as an option in the PM application (!) :bang: , I will resend you the whole thing with its opriginal formatting (later, I am still at work)

[Suzanna Stormborn]

^ Bah!

 

 

So on the subject of Dany's visions in THotU.  I have really been thinking about this a long time, and I am starting to convince myself that Tyrion is represented with this line; 

 

From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire.

 

 

 

So he is referred to about 100 times as a gargoyle, which is  made of stone.  He is often associated with them.  Here's an example quote;

“They hacked off her brother’s head in the hope that it was mine, yet here I sit like some bloody gargoyle, offering empty consolations.  If I were her, I’d want nothing more than to shove me into the sea.”

 

 

 

So he is the 'great stone beast'. A dragon/monster/chimera/twisted demon monkey/gargoyle.  Many people point out he is a bigger man than he appears, Aemon, moquorro, Varys, Jon Snow.   He resided in the Tower of the Hand in KL, also the tower where he shot his father then 'took wing' out of Westeros.  Also the tower that Cersei razed to the ground in hopes to burn him alive or smoke him out.  During the whole burning scene she mentions Tyrion like 5 times, that he is the driving force behind her burning down the tower.  So he is 'the great stone beast' and he 'took wing from a smoking tower'.  'Breathing shadow fire' is more complicated.  To me, it means 'not real fire', 'metaphorical fire'.  Which is exactly what Tyrion has been doing ever since he took wing.  After a few conversations he turned fAegon, the GC and Illyrio/Varys's plans completely around and sent them to Westeros to oppose Dany instead of joining with her.  He definitely sparked a flame in Volantis with Vagarro's Whore, that's when we learn that the slaves in Volantis are ready to ignite, to join the revolution.  He gets to SB, saves Jorah's life, escapes from slavery and joins the Second Sons, and is basically an officer by the end of his first week, and turns their loyalty back over to Dany.  He is breathing fire, fucking up plans and changing the course of many forces all with his words, his 'shadow fire'.

  :)

 

 

Also in Dany's vision, almost every other main character Dany had or will have interaction with is represented at some point except Tyrion. Vic, Jon, Drogo, Viserys, Rhaegar, MMD, the Red Wedding, etc.  So this is Tyrion; the great stone beast, taking wing from a smoking tower, breathing shadow fire.

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

^ Bah!

 

 

So on the subject of Dany's visions in THotU.  I have really been thinking about this a long time, and I am starting to convince myself that Tyrion is represented with this line; 

 

 

So he is referred to about 100 times as a gargoyle, which is  made of stone.  He is often associated with them.  Here's an example quote;

 

 

So he is the 'great stone beast'. A dragon/monster/chimera/twisted demon monkey/gargoyle.  Many people point out he is a bigger man than he appears, Aemon, moquorro, Varys.   He resided in the Tower of the Hand in KL, also the tower where he shot his father then 'took wing' out of Westeros.  Also the tower that Cersei razed to the ground in hopes to burn him alive or smoke him out.  During the whole burning scene she mentions Tyrion like 5 times, that he is the driving force behind her burning down the tower.  So he is 'the great stone beast' and he 'took wing from a smoking tower'.  'Breathing shadow fire' is more complicated.  To me, it means 'not real fire', 'metaphorical fire'.  Which is exactly what Tyrion has been doing ever since he took wing.  After a few conversations he turned fAegon, the GC and Illyrio/Varys's plans completely around and sent them to Westeros to oppose Dany instead of joining with her.  He definitely sparked a flame in Volantis with Vagarro's Whore, that's when we learn that the slaves in Volantis are ready to ignite, to join the revolution.  He gets to SB, saves Jorah's life, escapes from slavery and joins the Second Sons, and is basically an officer by the end of his first week, and turns their loyalty back over to Dany.  He is breathing fire, fucking up plans and changing the course of many forces all with his words, his 'shadow fire'.

  :)

 

 

Also in Dany's vision, almost every other main character Dany had or will have interaction with is represented at some point except Tyrion. Vic, Jon, Drogo, Viserys, Rhaegar, MMD, the Red Wedding, etc.  So this is Tyrion; the great stone beast, taking wing from a smoking tower, breathing shadow fire.

if Tyrion is the Gargoyle that is stone... would Daenerys discovering his true Targaryen heritage be waking dragons from stone?

[Wouter]

"The great stone beast breathing shadow fire" is jon connington,I think. Griffin is great beast, stone because he has grayscale, shadow fire would fit if he is spreading the infection. The tower couldbe griffin’s roost, or any other castle with a suitable tower.

[Jô Maltese]

"The great stone beast breathing shadow fire" is jon connington,I think. Griffin is great beast, stone because he has grayscale, shadow fire would fit if he is spreading the infection. The tower couldbe griffin’s roost, or any other castle with a suitable tower.

Yes, I quite agree with you on this. And shadow fire is BlackFyre...Aegon.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

"The great stone beast breathing shadow fire" is jon connington,I think. Griffin is great beast, stone because he has grayscale, shadow fire would fit if he is spreading the infection. The tower couldbe griffin’s roost, or any other castle with a suitable tower.

 

 

Yes, I quite agree with you on this. And shadow fire is BlackFyre...Aegon.

hmm interesting.  It would have to be one or the other, either spreading greyscale or spreading the 6th blackfyre rebellion. Suppose this is another thing we will have to wait for.  However I dont think the white lion represents Tyrion in Dany's visions, and there must be a spot for him in there somewhere.  And I dont really think JonCon is important enough to earn a spot in her visions mainly because I dont see him spreading greyscale across Westeros, just dying of it................... unless he is there to 'War of the Worlds' on the White Walkers....ugh so many options

[Jô Maltese]

Copying a thread I have just published:

I develop an old analysis initially made by Ragnarok and reported by Corbon (a scholar on A+J=T who does not come here often enough IMO) on the original thread. We could call it Tyrion and the Dragon Skulls...

 

 

GoT - Tyrion II

Tyrion had a morbid fascination with dragons. (...)

Tyrion stood in that dank cellar for a long time, staring at Balerion's huge, empty-eyed skull until his torch burned low, trying to grasp the size of the living animal, to imagine how it must have looked when it spread its great black wings and swept across the skies, breathing fire.

Morbid fascination indeed.

 

GoT - Dany I

Yet sometimes Dany would picture the way it had been, so often had her brother told her the stories. (...) The polished skulls of the last dragons staring down sightlessly from the walls of the throne room while the Kingslayer opened Father's throat with a golden sword.

 

 

GoT - Eddard II

"I cannot answer for the gods, Your Grace … only for what I found when I rode into the throne room that day," Ned said. "Aerys was dead on the floor, drowned in his own blood. His dragon skulls stared down from the walls. (...)

"I was still mounted. I rode the length of the hall in silence, between the long rows of dragon skulls. It felt as though they were watching me, somehow.

 

 

GoT - Daenarys IV (tHotU)

Beyond loomed a cavernous stone hall, the largest she had ever seen. The skulls of dead dragons looked down from its walls. Upon a towering barbed throne sat an old man in rich robes, an old man with dark eyes and long silver-grey hair. "Let him be king over charred bones and cooked meat," he said to a man below him. "Let him be the king of ashes." Drogon shrieked, his claws digging through silk and skin, but the king on his throne never heard, and Dany moved on.

Same account from different sources, the dragons (skulls) stared down (and Drogon shrieked) when Aerys (and Rhaenys and Aegon) died... Defeated dragons? Sad dragons? And Ned is the first character to feel as if they were not completely dead, only blind.

 

GoT - Tyrion II

When he had first come to King's Landing for his sister's wedding to Robert Baratheon, he had made it a point to seek out the dragon skulls that had hung on the walls of Targaryen's throne room. King Robert had replaced them with banners and tapestries, but Tyrion had persisted until he found the skulls in the dank cellar where they had been stored. He had expected to find them impressive, perhaps even frightening. He had not thought to find them beautiful. Yet they were. As black as onyx, polished smooth, so the bone seemed to shimmer in the light of his torch. They liked the fire, he sensed. He'd thrust the torch into the mouth of one of the larger skulls and made the shadows leap and dance on the wall behind him. The teeth were long, curving knives of black diamond. The flame of the torch was nothing to them; they had bathed in the heat of far greater fires. When he had moved away, Tyrion could have sworn that the beast's empty eye sockets had watched him go.

 

 

aSoS - Tyrion VII

Tyrion waddled along a long dark passageway until he found the door he wanted, and pushed through.

Within, the dragon skulls were waiting, and so was Shae.

Can't you feel love emanating from the dragon skulls towards Tyrion (and his torch)? I can.

 

If you can't, compare it to Arya's experience:

 

GoT - Arya III

"It's dead," she said aloud. "It's just a skull, it can't hurt me." Yet somehow the monster seemed to know she was there. She could feel its empty eyes watching her through the gloom, and there was something in that dim, cavernous room that did not love her. She edged away from the skull and backed into a second, larger than the first. For an instant she could feel its teeth digging into her shoulder, as if it wanted a bite of her flesh.

No love here. But nobody has ever suspected Arya to have any Targaryen blood after all, she is 100% wolf-blood this one, it is known.

 

And Tyrion made the shadows leap and dance on the wall...

 

aCoK - Tyrion II

Varys smiled. "Here, then. Power resides where men believe it resides. No more and no less."

"So power is a mummer's trick?"

"A shadow on the wall," Varys murmured, "yet shadows can kill. And ofttimes a very small man can cast a very large shadow."

 

... Has Tyrion projected Power with Fire in the RK cellar? He certainly has on the Blackwater anyway.

 

There is another almost dead and blind dragon meeting Tyrion:

 

aGoT -Tyrion III

"Oh, I think that Lord Tyrion is quite a large man," Maester Aemon said from the far end of the table. He spoke softly, yet the high officers of the Night's Watch all fell quiet, the better to hear what the ancient had to say. "I think he is a giant come among us, here at the end of the world."

Tyrion answered gently, "I've been called many things, my lord, but giant is seldom one of them."

"Nonetheless," Maester Aemon said as his clouded, milk-white eyes moved to Tyrion's face, "I think it is true."

For once, Tyrion Lannister found himself at a loss for words. He could only bow his head politely and say, "You are too kind, Maester Aemon."

The blind man smiled. He was a tiny thing, wrinkled and hairless, shrunken beneath the weight of a hundred years so his maester's collar with its links of many metals hung loose about his throat. "I have been called many things, my lord," he said, "but kind is seldom one of them."

Why does a blind dragon suddenly feels kindness and awe towards Tyrion???

 

And Dany woke the dragons, we know. But did Tyrion help?

 

aSoS - Tyrion VII

The skulls of the Targaryen dragons were emerging from the darkness around them, black amidst grey. "Day comes too soon." A new day. A new year. A new century.

 

 

aDwD - Tyrion IV

Tyrion had drunk himself blind his first night on the Shy Maid. The next day he awoke with dragons fighting in his skull.

The dragons are alive now, and Tyrion is almost dead. Did the dragons helped in resuscitating him like he did for them earlier?

 

Oh, and a little extra:

 

aCoK - Tyrion X

"I believe in steel swords, gold coins, and men's wits," said Tyrion. "And I believe there once were dragons. I've seen their skulls, after all.

"Let us hope that is the worst thing you ever see, my lord."

Bligh me! Is Varys implying Tyrion is going to meet living dragons..?  ;)

[King Jaime Lannister]

Hmm... I've been arguing for some time that Tyrion will betray Daenerys for gold...

One betrayal for Gold..... 

totally there with you.  Nothing is more gold in this series than the Lannisters. 

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

One betrayal for Gold..... 

totally there with you.  Nothing is more gold in this series than the Lannisters. 

If I was going to guess who betrays her for gold it would a certain Sell Sword.

[SerJarilLowther]

AJT, being real or not, is a very poor outcome, completely destroying the Tyrion/Tywim relationship and killing the best sentence of the books, when Gemma say to Jaime something like "you fight like Tyget, you are loyal like Kevan and handsome like Geryon but Tyrion is Tywin's son"

[Jô Maltese]

AJT, being real or not, is a very poor outcome, completely destroying the Tyrion/Tywim relationship and killing the best sentence of the books, when Gemma say to Jaime something like "you fight like Tyget, you are loyal like Kevan and handsome like Geryon but Tyrion is Tywin's son"

Ask yourself the following:

- Who is really described as a classic Lannister in Gemma's sentence: Jaime or Tyrion?

- Why the heck would Tywin sulk for 6 months after Gemma said so to him if he had never doubted his paternity?

[SerJarilLowther]

I hate this theory ruining the best sentence of the book :Jaime, sweetling, I have known you since you were a babe at Joanna's breast. You smile like Gerion and fight like Tyg and there's some of Kevan in you, else you would not wear that cloak...but Tyrion is Tywin's son, not you. "