The Fattest Leech Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 On 8/28/2015 at 11:05 AM, LionoftheWest said: The growing presence of magic in the series. GRRM should have included less of it in the story. Whaaa? You want less magic in a fantasy story with fighting dragons? Most of the magic is either in people's heads or is limited to still-to-be-seen prophecies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Bong of Ice and Fire Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 The biggest problem with ASoIaF is not enough Victarion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 15 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said: Whaaa? You want less magic in a fantasy story with fighting dragons? Most of the magic is either in people's heads or is limited to still-to-be-seen prophecies. I have to disagree. The Others, the rising tide of zombies on both sides of the Wall, dragons, warlocks, warging, Faceless Men etc. are not limited to being in people's head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belomor Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Dothraki are cartoonishly primitive. Free Cities (except Braavos) customs are also cartoonishly evil to the point where it becomes stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khal drogon Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 11 minutes ago, Belomor said: Dothraki are cartoonishly primitive. Free Cities (except Braavos) customs are also cartoonishly evil to the point where it becomes stupid. I think you are talking about Slaver's Bay. The free cities are just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belomor Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 8 minutes ago, khal drogon said: I think you are talking about Slaver's Bay. The free cities are just fine. Yes, of course. I thought about editing it, but since you already answered, i leave it as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 2 hours ago, LionoftheWest said: I have to disagree. The Others, the rising tide of zombies on both sides of the Wall, dragons, warlocks, warging, Faceless Men etc. are not limited to being in people's head. I guess I don't see the Others as magic, more like a race unto themselves and the rising tide of zombies could be magic if magic is just a manipulation of objects. If so, that is a power limited to and controlled by them. Warging I don't think is magic for the same type of reason in addition to it not being something you have to craft or spend time doing ritualistic naked dancing in the woods. Clearly I have tried that last part but quickly realized I just had too much to drink. Warging, skinchanging and greenseeing never came or went with the birth of dragons. It is something that is born in to people (or mulch on the case of Bloodraven). I dunno about the Faceless Men. Is that magic??? I guess I can agree with this one because they are a religion (cult) and do have ritualistic practices and how else do you explain waving your hand across your face to change your features? Part of what I mentioned is that most of the "real magic" has only just been awakened and it still yet to be seen. We, the readers, know of it popping up in different locations, but it has not really had a Planetos-wide effect... yet. Plus, I love me some magic (and dancing drunk in the woods too) so I guess I don't think it has reached "too much" just yet. Edited to add: Most of the prophecies are self-fulfilling and cannot be attributed to magic. The person giving the prophecies may have real magic powers in other cases, but what we have seen so far are either visions of what just happened, is happening or may happen, or may be answers given just to mentally torture spoiled brat children. It is the may happen part that is still to be determined... Cersei, I'm lookin' at you girl! I guess it is the magic of paranoia. Edited a second time to add: This is one thing I don't like so much about this series. Too many prophecies. It gets a little tiresome to keep track of them all, who said them and the hidden meanings behind them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spookykid Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 to much skinchanging, warging, face changing, glamours, anyone could be anyone else or know anything or everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobOsevens Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 24 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said: I guess I don't see the Others as magic, more like a race unto themselves and the rising tide of zombies could be magic if magic is just a manipulation of objects. If so, that is a power limited to and controlled by them. I used to think this way as well, the Others as a race, but the result of Sam killing Ser Puddles really makes me question that. If they can't be killed by ordinary means (I know we don't know that yet) but only by dragonsteel (valyrian?) or obsidian and then they melt and don't leave physical remains I find it hard to believe they aren't some sort of magical construct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 8 minutes ago, RobOsevens said: I used to think this way as well, the Others as a race, but the result of Sam killing Ser Puddles really makes me question that. If they can't be killed by ordinary means (I know we don't know that yet) but only by dragonsteel (valyrian?) or obsidian and then they melt and don't leave physical remains I find it hard to believe they aren't some sort of magical construct. I don't want to go tooo off topic here, but isn't that kinda the same as if, say, aliens were to land and the humans found out that blaring the song "Indian Love Call" would kill them and they explode in to puddles of goo. If they are not carbon-based lifeforms then I would expect them to react differently to different materials. I still feel they are a race unto themselves until I see something else. But I am fully aware and accepting of the "We will have to wait and see" idea. Nothing is known until the last page of ADOS... sooner or later. And to stay on topic. I hate, really, reaallly hate, the overuse of butter. It literally makes me gag everytime I read about anything swimming on butter, or dripping in butter, or butter ran down someone's g-damn chin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joy Hill Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 19 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said: And to stay on topic. I hate, really, reaallly hate, the overuse of butter. It literally makes me gag everytime I read about anything swimming on butter, or dripping in butter, or butter ran down someone's g-damn chin. I don't mind the butter, but I hate all that butter and grease running down people's chins. All these highborn lords and ladies need to be sent to table manners boot camp ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Parker Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I'm not the biggest fan of how the POV changes from ASOS to AFFC and there are a bunch of random people with POV chapters now. I liked it when it was just a handful so that you really knew who the main characters were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 On 2 February 2016 at 0:06 AM, The Fattest Leech said: Whaaa? You want less magic in a fantasy story with fighting dragons? Most of the magic is either in people's heads or is limited to still-to-be-seen prophecies. I don't understand the criticism on Magic. From the very first chapter, it clear this is a series is most definitely a fantasy series, and one which will make use of magic. I just feel like, if you don't want to read a series involving fantasy elements and magic, why did you read past the first chapter? Sure, I get people have preferences, but it's clear what your getting into from the start... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Structure, pacing and bloat in Feast and Dance. Martin's rationale for splitting up the books geograpically was so that we wouldn't get "half the story for all the characters", yet that is exactly what we got. Character development and world building is great but shouldn't come at the expense of plot progression. Martin struck a good balance between the three in the first three books. Not so in the last two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabrik1980 Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 For me the worst thing is the wait for TWoW. I blame the cliffhangers from ADwD for that. I have a feeling that after TWoW the wait for ADoS won't be as bad. At least a lot of characters will be killed off in TWoW and we can make better assumptions about what will happen in the endgame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobOsevens Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 18 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said: I don't want to go tooo off topic here, but isn't that kinda the same as if, say, aliens were to land and the humans found out that blaring the song "Indian Love Call" would kill them and they explode in to puddles of goo. If they are not carbon-based lifeforms then I would expect them to react differently to different materials. I still feel they are a race unto themselves until I see something else. But I am fully aware and accepting of the "We will have to wait and see" idea. Nothing is known until the last page of ADOS... sooner or later. 100% agree, I am always confused when I see people complain about the fantasy elements Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walda Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 19 hours ago, Spookykid said: to much skinchanging, warging, face changing, glamours, anyone could be anyone else or know anything or everything Not to mention anyone could be a secret Targ, twin, swapped at birth. And the serpentine steps are way too serpentine. (but these are trivial annoyances, not real put-me-off-the-whole-thing hates) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg B Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 I would have wished that he was able to maintain control of his story and stay on track after aSoS, and/or that he had an editor willing or able to help him regain it. He's been alternately floundering and grinding for years. It has to be very unpleasant for him, and it certainly doesn't make for the best reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 On 2/2/2016 at 1:21 PM, Spookykid said: to much skinchanging, warging, face changing, glamours, anyone could be anyone else or know anything or everything I admit, he does overdo a lot of elements until it feels like he's bashing you over the head with certain plot elements and themes (Revenge is bad! Identity issues! Words are wind!) but... I'm betting that we'll learn someone is warg from hundreds to thousands of years ago. That'd be better than any hidden Targ any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernDirewolf Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Most of the things I didn't like were fixed on the show, like the age of Dany and the Stark children, and Tyrion not meeting Daenerys yet. Also, I wish we got a Doran POV, instead of Areo and Arys. But I guess he just knows too much, so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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