Kalbear Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Well, the aporetics made the chorae. No sign that the inchies did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I imagine some people are waiting for things to stabilize, but it has been weirdly slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Right, the Aporetics went over to the Consult and created them a hoard, iirc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokisnow Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Totally off topic... Did a ton of people not make the forum transition?It seems that topics are moving pretty slowly these days. The Acts of Caine thread has been lingering on the first page with no new posts for days.I was off for ages because 99% of my posts are on tapatalk and it was angry at the new forum. Still doesn't remember my participated threads, which makes it cumbersome to seek out discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curethan Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Well, the aporetics made the chorae. No sign that the inchies did. Right, the Aporetics went over to the Consult and created them a hoard, iirc.Yeah, I'm sure that the Aporos didn't interest them at all. If they were interested in wielding sorcery, they probably would have tried to learn to use it themselves.This is probably just like the way the Americans used German scientists to develop the atomic bomb and yet still don't understand anything about nuclear technology. The chorae embedded in the no-god's carapace are just decoration, obviously, and the seemingly obvious similarity between Mimara banishing the influence of an agent from the outside via a chorae and the no-god's method of sealing the world from the outside is also no real indication that aporetic magic is involved in either case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Yeah, I'm sure that the Aporos didn't interest them at all. If they were interested in wielding sorcery, they probably would have tried to learn to use it themselves.This is probably just like the way the Americans used German scientists to develop the atomic bomb and yet still don't understand anything about nuclear technology.That wasn't the point. You said that the inchies manufactured chorae and aporetics. They didn't. As far as we can tell they didn't even enhance them. They used them. They got sorcerers to join their side, but there's no sign that they're even making them any more. And the Inchies have been so far fairly bad at being able to come up with advancements. That appears to be the realm of humans. Inchies seem to be the telephone sanitizers of the universe. There is a difference between the Inchies and the Consult, one you appear to miss completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curethan Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 That wasn't the point. You said that the inchies manufactured chorae and aporetics. They didn't. As far as we can tell they didn't even enhance them. They used them. They got sorcerers to join their side, but there's no sign that they're even making them any more. And the Inchies have been so far fairly bad at being able to come up with advancements. That appears to be the realm of humans. Inchies seem to be the telephone sanitizers of the universe. There is a difference between the Inchies and the Consult, one you appear to miss completely. Not really. You are just dissembling via rhetoric in order to create and 'win' an argument. The Consult includes all of the Inchies as a subset. The Inchies are complicit in everything the Consult and their allies do. The actions and goals of the surviving Inchies and their allies are predicated by the same motivations as the original Inchoroi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Yes, I'm not contesting the fact that the Chorae is integral to what they do. Only, that they never created them. Sure, there important to the No-God and when the go to battle. Wasn't it said the the greatest hoard of Chorae, lies in Golgoterrath? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Okay, that isn't my intent. I was specifically separating the inchies and the consult because of the inverse fire and the crash space thing. I'll reiterate my point. I think the inverse fire is just a damnation simulator and isn't real, though it effectively addicts anyone that it hits. I think that it is not clear whether the inchies do have the truth, and even worse whether they're even damned. Heck, until Earwa they weren't metaphysical at all. Isn't that odd?I think that them having aporetics or even gnostic sorcery doesn't matter because that didn't inform their opinion of damnation. As far as we can tell, they thought they were damned and wanted to close worlds long before magic was even known to them. The aporetics matter to the consult as a theoretical construct, but so far the inchies aren't the theory guys. They're the rape demons controlled by their urges and their inability to fully understand their own tech. So yeah, it could be that aurax and aurang know a ton about theory and aporetics, though they didn't show any of that in their war with the nonmen. I think it's more likely that it's the human members that came up with any of the metaphysical heavy lifting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curethan Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 See, that's all pretty sound speculation from my point of view. Definitely agree that Shae and the Mangeacca were integral to applying a lot of the know how that the Inchies of Far Antiquity were too stupid to properly understand - Tekne and Aporos, I didn't mean to imply that the ancient Inchies were responsible for the Consult's modern innovations, beyond collecting arcane knowledge and ham-fistedly attempting to employ it. Just that the Consult have learned from and built upon their errorsI think that them having aporetics or even gnostic sorcery doesn't matter because that didn't inform their opinion of damnation. As far as we can tell, they thought they were damned and wanted to close worlds long before magic was even known to them. The aporetics matter to the consult as a theoretical construct, but so far the inchies aren't the theory guysI didn't intend to claim that it did. There was the distinction between their original objective and that of the Consult via the the No-god. Nil'Giccas seemed to imply that Mog was something the ancient Inchoroi thought possible but abandoned because they could not enact it. Even so, I would expect that theoretical possibility came from a Siqu, like Mek or Nin'Jan'Jin rather than the Inchies. Like you, I tend to avoid any suggestion that involve the ancient Inchies being innovators rather than scavengers and thieves. Heck, until Earwa they weren't metaphysical at all. Isn't that odd?Well, I tend to think that they had no proof of the existence of the metaphysical beyond the IF (lie or not). The idea that they only became burdened with a soul and damnation when they got to Earwa is a little too hard for me to get my head around.But it raises the question, how do you make a simulation of something you have no knowledge of? Could it have been created by some metaphysical agency in order to manipulate the Inchies? Like the way that the Halaroi gods act through proxies...My pet speculation on the IF is that Inchoroi scientists made it by accident. That it was some kind of subtractive nano-tech that ate a hole in the fabric of the mundane and created a portal to their afterlife (i.e. hell). Nothing to back this up, I just think it's a cool idea. Well, they do think it's holey. Shitty pun ftw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Bass Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Well, we know the Tekne is so capable that the Inchoroi could create entire slave races, operate space age aircraft, and build incredibly durable starships that can literally survive a crash landing with no dents. It's probably not a stretch to imagine they can screw around with the fabric of space-time, and accidentally pulled an Event Horizon opening a window into Hell. It could have even actually been an accident, with them looking into the Outside with a device meant to allow them to study "higher dimensions". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curethan Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 It doesn't detract from Kal's idea that the IF is not what the Inchies/Consult think it is though. The outside seems to be centered pretty exclusively on Earwa. Indeed, the Inchies were drawn into seeking Earwa out specifically.Even if it is really a portal rather than some type of deceptive enslavement by personality alteration, perhaps we should still be asking who/what was pulling their strings. If they weren't damned before they got to Earwa, that's some next level xanatos shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.H. Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 It doesn't detract from Kal's idea that the IF is not what the Inchies/Consult think it is though. The outside seems to be centered pretty exclusively on Earwa. Indeed, the Inchies were drawn into seeking Earwa out specifically.Even if it is really a portal rather than some type of deceptive enslavement by personality alteration, perhaps we should still be asking who/what was pulling their strings. If they weren't damned before they got to Earwa, that's some next level xanatos shit.From the way that Wutteät describes the journey to Earwa leads me to believe they were damned long before they even found him, let alone found Earwa. The "prophecy" of a "promised land" and the need to reduce the worlds in question to 144,000 souls predate Earwa, seemingly, by a wide margin.I'm not really feeling the idea that the Chorae in the Carapace are just decorations. I think they serve at least two purposes, being, first, protection from sorcerous means to breach the Carapace, and second, integral in "holding" the No-God in Earwa (or the Inside, as opposed to the Outside, if you will) but also in rendering it blind to itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curethan Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I'm not really feeling the idea that the Chorae in the Carapace are just decorations. I think they serve at least two purposes, being, first, protection from sorcerous means to breach the Carapace, and second, integral in "holding" the No-God in Earwa (or the Inside, as opposed to the Outside, if you will) but also in rendering it blind to itself.Yeah, I was attempting sarcasm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.H. Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Yeah, I was attempting sarcasm. Oh, ok, flew right past me, too early in the morning here.One speculative thing I have been warming up to is the "trans-humanistic" allegory aspect of the story. If you've read Bakker's new short story, it's something he is really harping on. This jives well with what I found could be a major aspect of the series, the idea that Inchoroi and Nonmen are examples of the dangers of attempting to subvert and engineer biology to our own ends. As such, I feel like the Inchoroi "original sin" is their, probably, amoral pursuit of such ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madness Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Bakker is dropping bombs at TPB.EDIT:Mithfanion (Calibander here) asked:Would you say that Unholy Consult would be about the same size as Great Ordeal , which is listed at just below 500 pages by Overlook?Bakker:The file is bigger, but then the Encyclopedic Glossary has grown quite big. My guess is that the story will weigh in somewhere over 400 pages, with the EG taking up another 200 or so. My guess.Responding to Trisk's request for the merest fraction: Part of the problem was that my Overlook editor quit (without forewarning), so as it stands, I’m still waiting to be assigned editors for either Overlook or Orbit. As soon as that happens, I can get Pat the rest of the chapter I promised him way back, as well as work out something with Grimdark magazine. You shall have you taste soon enough.Massimiliano:so is there any hope to have an extended encyclopedic glossary coming out toghether with The Unholy Consult or as a separate piece?Just out of curiosity, have you already started writing The Book That Should Not Be Named? Or anything else related to Eärwa? (such as the Isûphiryas).Bakker:The EG was the big reason for splitting the books, and its only thing still requiring any serious work. I’ve been writing fragments for the final series for years now–as soon as I’ve finished it and rewritten TUC, the final dualogy is my first priority.That's the juice. There's another interesting tidbit about having written some five short stories in addition to Crash Space over the summer.Unfortunate to hear that editors are still yet to be assigned but it seems like negotiating a three-book contract into four books with Orbit (as Wert guessed) has essentially taken us back to zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Drizztos Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Bakker is dropping bombs at TPB.The Pirate Bay? Give us a link pls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madness Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Lol - I think that was a joke but for clarity, I did mean Bakker's blog Three Pound Brain.And as I said elsewhere, I never saw an electronic copy and I burned mine so that I might receive further revelations from its glorious ashes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Drizztos Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Three Pound Brain.Oh, right. Should have thought of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madness Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Sorry, Ser Drizztos. That must have been a rush, thinking Bakker was just putting it out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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