Spockydog Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Spocky,That's an awefully cynical position. Do you have any data that points to major terror attacks actually being "false flag" operations?Just to be clear, I’m not claiming any of these attacks were inside jobs, but there are aspects to some that are, to my eye, a little bit fishy.Take the 7/7 attacks in London. The only bus that was diverted from its normal route that day was the one that blew up outside the British Medical Association in Tavistock Square. Lots of doctors were immediately onhand to help the victims.Another thing I find odd is that there always seems to be some kind of drill being conducted by the security forces, usually for the exact same scenario being enacted by the terrorists. It happened on 9/11, on 7/7, and also the Paris attacks last week.From Wiki:On the day of the bombings Peter Power of Visor Consultants gave interviews on BBC Radio 5 Live and ITV saying that he was working on a crisis management simulation drill, in the City of London, "based on simultaneous bombs going off precisely at the railway stations where it happened this morning", when he heard that an attack was going on in real life. He described this as a coincidence.I wonder what the odds are. I’m no tinfoil hatter, just someone who doesn’t automatically believe everything the government and media tell me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tijgy Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 They expanded the threat alert in Brussels. The metro will still be closed and tomorrow the schools will be closed tomorrow in Brussels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biglose Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Just to be clear, I’m not claiming any of these attacks were inside jobs, but there are aspects to some that are, to my eye, a little bit fishy.Take the 7/7 attacks in London. The only bus that was diverted from its normal route that day was the one that blew up outside the British Medical Association in Tavistock Square. Lots of doctors were immediately onhand to help the victims.Another thing I find odd is that there always seems to be some kind of drill being conducted by the security forces, usually for the exact same scenario being enacted by the terrorists. It happened on 9/11, on 7/7, and also the Paris attacks last week.From Wiki:On the day of the bombings Peter Power of Visor Consultants gave interviews on BBC Radio 5 Live and ITV saying that he was working on a crisis management simulation drill, in the City of London, "based on simultaneous bombs going off precisely at the railway stations where it happened this morning", when he heard that an attack was going on in real life. He described this as a coincidence.I wonder what the odds are. I’m no tinfoil hatter, just someone who doesn’t automatically believe everything the government and media tell me. Pathetic and bullshit.Everybody knows, that such argumentations work with everything. I read more convincing one from holocaust deniers. They work all after the same principle:Lying about probability. It is the same procedure with which you can get wrongful confictiong with partial DNA.Look, it is totally improbable that X of those markers fit and it is not the right guy. Yeah, but if it would have been x different markers you would tell me the same thing with some other guy.Same thing here, if it would not have been the hospital, then it would have been something else. It maybe be the guy who missed the buss is a jew or some important guy or whatever. Or some guy said something which gained actuallity with this attack. But frankly, people say a lot of stuff every day, there are several hospitals in a city, police does training exercises quite offten and if they do not do anything than maybe the firefighters or paramedics or there happens to be a conferance of doctors in town or whatever. There are millions of possibilities and you will only focus on the once which are true in said scenario. And there will always be some. Thats the way propabilities work. If you pay attention living your live you see several coincidences every single day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted November 22, 2015 Author Share Posted November 22, 2015 Spocky,I know you aren't a tinfoil hat guy. That's why I asked if you had a basis for the suspision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Spocky,I know you aren't a tinfoil hat guy. That's why I asked if you had a basis for the suspision.I don't really want to go much deeper into this, Scot. But since you asked, I will say a few things.First of all, consider Operation Northwoods, a United States DoD plan to stage a series of false flag terror attacks on American soil in order to create a pretext for an invasion of Cuba.The files were declassified in 1997, and make for a pretty chilling read.It’s worth mentioning that this operation was authorized by the US Joint Chiefs but rejected by JFK. Imagine a similar kind of plan being presented to someone like Don Rumsfeld or Dick Cheney, or a Tony Blair desperate for his war in the Middle East. Can you be absolutely certain that it would be rejected? No? Neither can I.So, once you accept that there are people in our Governments coming up with shit like this, well, quite frankly, anything is possible.What is not, in my opinion, is for the UK Security Services to be conducting terror drills on 7/7 that mirror, almost exactly, the attacks being perpetrated simultaneously by a bunch of terrorists already known to the security services. I’m no statistician, but people far cleverer than I have suggested the statistical probability of this is so low, it’s next to impossible.Anyway, as I said, I’m no tinfoil hatter. I find most conspiracy theories to be absolutely ludicrous. But I was on the tube in London that morning, and I heard the explosion at Liverpool Street. People very close to me were directly affected. Therefore, I’ve done a lot of reading on the subject, and it just doesn’t smell right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tijgy Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Last night they had a major police action in Brussels. The police did 19 house searches in Brussels and 3 in Charleroi. They have arrested 16 people. The police and security services also asked people not to post any information of the actions on twitter or other social media. (x very cute cats btw) But they did not found Salah Abdeslam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I dont automatically accept what the media or government reports either. It seems suspicious that whenever the public gets cheap oil, mysterious shockwaves (terror, war, markets) seemingly develop out of the blue. Followed by some media narrative about how now oil prices will be rising. I expect terror campaigns too continue till gas prices are expensive again. I'm tinfoil I guess because I cannot prove that, but I believe it's linked somehow. There could very well be Westerners in league with terror groups based on financial motives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tijgy Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Do you really think the governments were involved in organizing the attacks in Paris? I think you can say the Belgian government and the Brussels' authorities made some policy mistakes and the socialists denied a lot of problems so they could use the migrant population to get some votes, but they did not really had the intention jihadists committed some terror attacks. Some other terrorists attack in the past maybe because they really concerned only national politics (f.e fight for Flemish autonomy). The Belgian politicians have other things to do like fighting between each other on regional level and then on national level.And if France (or even Belgium) finds out, an other Western country like USA is involved, a lot of good relations between countries would be destroyed. Do you really thinks USA or UK would ever risk that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I don't really want to go much deeper into this, Scot. But since you asked, I will say a few things.First of all, consider Operation Northwoods, a United States DoD plan to stage a series of false flag terror attacks on American soil in order to create a pretext for an invasion of Cuba.The files were declassified in 1997, and make for a pretty chilling read.It’s worth mentioning that this operation was authorized by the US Joint Chiefs but rejected by JFK. Imagine a similar kind of plan being presented to someone like Don Rumsfeld or Dick Cheney, or a Tony Blair desperate for his war in the Middle East. Can you be absolutely certain that it would be rejected? No? Neither can I.So, once you accept that there are people in our Governments coming up with shit like this, well, quite frankly, anything is possible.What is not, in my opinion, is for the UK Security Services to be conducting terror drills on 7/7 that mirror, almost exactly, the attacks being perpetrated simultaneously by a bunch of terrorists already known to the security services. I’m no statistician, but people far cleverer than I have suggested the statistical probability of this is so low, it’s next to impossible.Anyway, as I said, I’m no tinfoil hatter. I find most conspiracy theories to be absolutely ludicrous. But I was on the tube in London that morning, and I heard the explosion at Liverpool Street. People very close to me were directly affected. Therefore, I’ve done a lot of reading on the subject, and it just doesn’t smell right.Those people can't be that clever if they are saying that. This is exactly what conspiracy theory behaviour is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I don't really want to go much deeper into this, Scot. But since you asked, I will say a few things.First of all, consider Operation Northwoods, a United States DoD plan to stage a series of false flag terror attacks on American soil in order to create a pretext for an invasion of Cuba.The files were declassified in 1997, and make for a pretty chilling read.It’s worth mentioning that this operation was authorized by the US Joint Chiefs but rejected by JFK. Imagine a similar kind of plan being presented to someone like Don Rumsfeld or Dick Cheney, or a Tony Blair desperate for his war in the Middle East. Can you be absolutely certain that it would be rejected? No? Neither can I.So, once you accept that there are people in our Governments coming up with shit like this, well, quite frankly, anything is possible.What is not, in my opinion, is for the UK Security Services to be conducting terror drills on 7/7 that mirror, almost exactly, the attacks being perpetrated simultaneously by a bunch of terrorists already known to the security services. I’m no statistician, but people far cleverer than I have suggested the statistical probability of this is so low, it’s next to impossible.Anyway, as I said, I’m no tinfoil hatter. I find most conspiracy theories to be absolutely ludicrous. But I was on the tube in London that morning, and I heard the explosion at Liverpool Street. People very close to me were directly affected. Therefore, I’ve done a lot of reading on the subject, and it just doesn’t smell right. There are regular terror drills being staged by the security forces in and around London, several a year, most of which we never hear about. One drill a year means the probability is 1 in 365 that it happens to fall on the same day but these drills often span several days so the chances of them intersecting an actual event rapidly rises. You then have the fact that multiple attacks on London are planned or even attempted every year. This year the security services have reported seven terror plots since June alone, some of which will have certainly involved London. And there's the fact that this has been going on, more or less, for fifteen years.On 7/7 it just happened to come together that the attack took place when a drill was going on. During the second attempted attack two weeks later, there was no drill (but heightened security because of the actual event). The probability is "less likely than not" but certainly not "impossible". When you also throw in the number of drills, the number of attempted attacks and the period of time it has taken place over, it is not really implausible.Also, the British government can't keep it a secret that the PM skullfucked a pig. False flag claims are almost always spurious because the government (British, American or any really) can't keep secrets for shit and these operations would require the collusion of, at an absolute minimum, thousands of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Yes, you're right. Guess I must need my head examined.The Government loves us plebs, each and every one of us. They would never, ever, either by action or inaction, allow any of us to come to harm in order to further their own political agendas.Furthermore, the Operation Northwoods documents must clearly be a forgery, and all is right in the world.*books appointment at the local headshrinker* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted November 23, 2015 Author Share Posted November 23, 2015 Spocky,Isn't that a "hasty generalization" fallacy? You have one firm example, "Operation Northwoods", that supports your suspision and you are relying upon it for everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tijgy Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 This morning there were 7 new house searches in Brussels and near Liege/Luik (no idea how you write it in English). And there were 5 more arrests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Any group that profits from higher oil prices is a suspect with motive in my mind. That could include private players. A conspiracy doesnt have to be limited to government officials. ISIS may have partners that could shock or surprise the world if they were exposed. I think the truth is theres much that is unknown to the great unwashed. What the Paris attacks mean for the oil price - CNBC.comwww.cnbc.com/2015/11/16/paris-attacks-oil-price-isis-brent-crude-wti.htmlNov 16, 2015 - Oil prices traditionally spike on fears of supply disruptions caused by ... day of mourning after deadly attacks in Paris killed 129 people on Friday. ... it was hard to determine how those events can really impact oil prices in the long term. ... that an increased bombing campaign against the terror group could ...Terrorism: How Wall Street Responds to Attacks - Investopediawww.investopedia.com/articles/07/terrorism.aspNov 16, 2015 - Fundamentals · Charts & Patterns · Technical Indicators · Trading Strategies ... On the first day of trading after the attacks, the French stock market index, the ... oil prices in any significant manner, rumors or threats of attacks can cause ... Higher gas prices drive buyers away from SUVs and pickups, which are ...Kiplinger's Personal Finance - Sep 2005 - Google Books Resulthttps://books.google.com/books?id=MQQEAAAAMBAJVol. 59, No. 9 - MagazineOil Prices: Rapidly quadruple from $3-$12 in wake of Yom Kippur War Precious Metals ... Rapid spike doubles prices from $17-$34 after Iraq invades Kuwait in August 1990. ... Expected to continue to trend higher for foreseeable future. ... Rare Coin PCGS 3000 Index: Trending solidly higher since 9/1 1 terrorist attacks, with ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Yes, you're right. Guess I must need my head examined.The Government loves us plebs, each and every one of us. They would never, ever, either by action or inaction, allow any of us to come to harm in order to further their own political agendas.Furthermore, the Operation Northwoods documents must clearly be a forgery, and all is right in the world.*books appointment at the local headshrinker*Yes, thank you, this is textbook conspiracy theorist behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tijgy Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 To be honest, I am not even sure ISIS did order the attack directly. Yes, there are videos of ISIS threatening France, ... and ordering muslims to plan a terrorist attack, but the real preparations were probably made by Abdelhamid Abaoud. And I don't see a big enterprise or a government asking that guy to plan everything? Why would you plan an attack in Paris resulting in the death of hundreds of people? I always love a good conspiracy, but the attacks made by those people are nothing more than a symptom of a failed integration policy, the endless political correctness of Belgian media (the Flemish and the French) and maybe even of a failed state. Those conspiracies are just making ignore the fact Belgian politicians failed. And yes, they should finally take responsibilities. Of the 21 people arrested, only one is detained by the juge d'instruction (the judge who is leading the investigation). The threat alert of level four (highest threat level in Belgium) will be the level in Brussels until next week monday. And wednesday the schools and the metro will be open again. Brussels is really now a sleeping city. There is almost no people on the street, in the stations, ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Any group that profits from higher oil prices is a suspect with motive in my mind. That could include private players. A conspiracy doesnt have to be limited to government officials. ISIS may have partners that could shock or surprise the world if they were exposed. I think the truth is theres much that is unknown to the great unwashed. Yeah, sorry, killing 130 people in Paris is not going to move up the price of oil in a world awash with the stuff.And the Monday after the stock markets went up, saying FU to terrorists, which is the opposite reaction to what most people thought would happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Fragile Bird the Paris attacks are but one strike in a campaign. We don'f know what the cumulative effects may bring yet if terror attacks continue. I doubt markets can continually shake off shocks, eventually one of these attacks very well could effect economics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 DWS,And your evidence that the Paris attacks were a false flag operation designed to increase the price of oil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I didnt say the attacks were a false flag operation Scott. I said I dont wholly accept media and govt reports as whole truths and am suspicious that there are many possible unreported actions and actors that could shock the masses if the whole story was public. I do think its likely that ISIS has either public or private support/actors that arent public knowledge. If it were found that some of those accomplices were Westerners, Govt, private/corporate, I would not be shocked at all. Anything is possible when it comes to groups not afraid to manipulate events and try to profit from them. There are a host of companies that profit from conflict, there are market shortsellers, there are Saudis setting on an oil glut ( a rise in oil would be a windfall worth billions to there inventory currently I bet).No i didnt say Paris were false fag, that was an earlier poster. My position is , we probably dont know the whole truth and anything is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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