Do you consider these characters villains?

[Light a wight tonight]

Jaime Lannister
Tywin Lannister
Tyrion Lannister
Cersei Lannister
Petyr Baelish
Varys
Theon Greyjoy
Victarion Greyjoy
Aeron Greyjoy
Bran Stark
Arya Stark
Stannis Baratheon
Daenerys Targaryan

 

Jaime...light gray. His one really bad deed was throwing Bran out the window. He's done some good things since, and he saved King's Lading from being incinerated.

Tywin...evil. Wiping out both the Reynes and Tarbecks to the last suckling babe is enough, but him loosing Gregor and Amory Lorch against the Riverlands puts the seal on it. 

Tyrion..mid-gray. He's done some fairly bad things but mostly tried to do good, at least until he was unjustly convicted of regicide.

Cersei..evil. Sexually abusing her baby brother was just the beginning of her arc. Age 9, pushing her playmate down a well to drown, plotting to kill her husband, causing the deaths of numerous dwarfs, sending Falyse Stokeworth to Qyburn are more low-lights.

Petyr..evil. Eaten up with envy of the great Houses, especially the Tullys and Starks, he contributes to a devastating civil war to get vengeance.

Varys..at best, mid-gray, at worst evil. Working to overthrow the realm to install his own candidate for king. Uses up dozens ,if not hundreds, ofchild slaves (whose toungues have been removed) in the process.

Theon..dark gray. He's basically a privileged snot who has done evil deeds but rescued Jeyne Poole from Ramsay and has suffered for some of his villainy. 

Victarion...gray. If he weren't such a cartoon he'd be evil. 

Aeron...just a religious wackadoodle.

Bran...still in the larval stage. Has done nothing good or bad, may go on to achieve greatness.

Arya..beyond good or evil, she's the personification of Divine Retribution. Mere mortals are unfit to judge her.

Stannis...light grey. Overall he's mostly done good, but he's too rigid and self-righteous in his judgments and punishments of others.

Daenerys..light gray. Her motives are mostly good but she shows bad judgement and is sometimes overly cruel. But then she's Blood of the Dragon and that comes with the territory.

 

 

[Taenqyrhae]

Do you take circemstances into acount or not at all? just wondering. Because personally with a lot of the characters you mentioned I think the situation is way more complex than that they killed someone for non self preservation reasons. But that's just me. you do seem to be consistent.

Yes, I do take circumstances in account - re-read my sections on Jaime, Bran, and Arya.

[Lord Cadwan]

Whilst Tywin has committed many evil acts I would not call him a villain, when he was ruling Westeros as Hand of the King he was very capable and good for the realm. He is extraordinarily hard and ruthless but he does not use his power solely for evil, he brought peace and prosperity to the realm-which is more than can be said for any of the current kings/queens.

[Taenqyrhae]

Tywin ordered the gang rape of a 13 year old girl and people are still arguing over whether or not he is a villain?  Incredible.

 

[Knight Of Winter]

It's hard to define what constitutes a villain. I'd probably say it's a character driven by selfish goals who causes pain and misfortune of other people in its pursuit, knows this and accepts it. I'm well aware that this definition (as well as pretty much any other) isn't perfect and probably has a number of loopholes.

On my list, I'll go with that definition, coupled with my personal assessment.

Jaime Lannister - in the first two books, defnitely. He's well on his redemption road by now.
Tywin Lannister - definitely. He's vile as vile goes.
Tyrion Lannister - no (so far), but he's maybe heading in that direction.
Cersei Lannister - villain for sure and psycho to boot.
Petyr Baelish - of course.
Varys - this one is very edgy. I'm slighty leaning towards no.
Theon Greyjoy - he has his moments, but generally not.
Victarion Greyjoy - yes.
Aeron Greyjoy - probably not, although his heartfelt support of the "Iron way" is pretty disgusting
Bran Stark - ?? Why is he on the list? For warging Hodor? Not his most stellar moment, but he is miles away from any villainy.
Arya Stark - no. Although I can't be unbiased here - Arya is my favourite character whom I'd support no matter what she does. I still think she is definitely not a villain.
Stannis Baratheon - no
Daenerys Targaryan - no. She should be "hero with lack of patience, experience and anger management".

[kimim]

I think it's complicated because if you get into the whole discussion about whether or not someone is responsible for their own actions due to the fact that they have a personality disorder you can go very far. in the end we're all a product of society, we all have problems that make us do things that we shouldn't (of course for most of us that includes spending too much money and other rather arbitrary things) I suffer from an anxiety disorder that makes certain things very hard for me and from my perspective i think that I both deserve sympathy and understanding from the people around me for that but I am also still just as much responsible for my own actions and should be called out on those. having this anxiety disorder doesn't give me a free pass. and I extend that to all personality disorders including antisocial personality disorder. They're still responsible for their own actions no matter what made them that way, but I can also be sympathetic to what happened to them that made them that way (even when it's rather small things because I consider what happened to petyr rather small compared to what other characters had to endure, but I still feel sympathy that he had to go through that, same with Cersei) And you can do both. it's not so black and white that you have to say "this person was not at all responsible" or "this person was completely responsible" it's way more complex than that if you ask me.

Good point. I knew someone who had bipolar disorder and a some type of sociopathy. She was my bff's sister. She didn't kill anyone, but she ousted my friend from his family and his family's business. His wife's a therapist, and she's very torn. She knows the sister has issues, and she yoyos between wanting her punished, and feeling very, very sorry for her. It's a mess, so ita.

[INCBlackbird]

It's hard to define what constitutes a villain. I'd probably say it's a character driven by selfish goals who causes pain and misfortune of other people in its pursuit, knows this and accepts it. I'm well aware that this definition (as well as pretty much any other) isn't perfect and probably has a number of loopholes.

On my list, I'll go with that definition, coupled with my personal assessment.

Bran Stark - ?? Why is he on the list? For warging Hodor? Not his most stellar moment, but he is miles away from any villainy.
 

I agree that it's hard to define what a villain is, also because I think a lot of times it depends on the context. My definition is however very similar to yours.

Bran is on the list because i've seen people say he's a villain,  I don't think he is (but I don't think most people on the list are) but I'm trying to be unbiased and add everyone i've seen this topic discussed about.

[The Wolves]

Tywin ordered the gang rape of a 13 year old girl and people are still arguing over whether or not he is a villain?  Incredible.

 

He's also ordered the deaths of babies and multiple innocents for his own selfish reasons.

 

Tywin defenders don't label him "evil" because he apparently has justifiable excuses, yet I have never understood how the murder of innocent, helpless children would be justifiable or the gangraped of a child. Tywin is evil. 

[Eddard Scissorhands]

There are a lot of Grey characters in asoiaf, it's one of the things I love about it. and I think it'd be interesting to know how many people consider certain (or all) of these grey characters villains. i've made a list with characters that I've seen debates about on the subject. I'm leaving out obvious characters (goodguys and badguys) but if you have a controversial opinion on one feel free to mention them and explain why. i'm also sure that i've missed some one this list so feel free to add anyone you think fits. So here we go, do you consider these characters villains and why? also, it would be handy to add your personal definition of what a villain is, because I've noticed that it depends from person to person, which values you hold highest and so on.

Jaime Lannister

Tywin Lannister

Tyrion Lannister

Cersei Lannister

Petyr Baelish

Varys

Theon Greyjoy

Victarion Greyjoy

Aeron Greyjoy

Bran Stark

Arya Stark

Stannis Baratheon

Daenerys Targaryan

note: please refrain from personal attacks, I know this is a subject that could get out of hand as people tend to take it personal when others say negativve things about their favs (myself included) but let's try to have a civil discussion about this.

 

Although all of them have done terrible things and all is subjective..

On this list;

Tywin , Petyr, Cersei and Victarion 'feel' like typical villains to me.

Varys is a joker card leaning towards villain, Stannis may end up one.

[Darksnider05]

He's also ordered the deaths of babies and multiple innocents for his own selfish reasons.

 

Tywin defenders don't label him "evil" because he apparently has justifiable excuses, yet I have never understood how the murder of innocent, helpless children would be justifiable or the gangraped of a child. Tywin is evil. 

Because Arya Stark who has literally put her life on the line to save babies from the forces of Tywin is clearly hitler in comparison.  Tywin and Petyr Baelish are basically the King of Bandits and respectively the Sex Trafficker Lord are justified in their quest for something or another.

[RoamingRonin]

Jaime Lannister - No. But I'm no fan of his character. I don't buy his redemption arc.
Tywin Lannister - Yes.
Tyrion Lannister - No. I dislike him but I don't think he's out to be a villain. He's just despicable.
Cersei Lannister - Yes. Will eventually become the Mad Queen.
Petyr Baelish - Yes. 
Varys - Yes. He secretly thirsts for vengeance. Could have prevented many tragedies but they benefited his motives.
Theon Greyjoy - Not anymore. Not a fan. He's done some villainous things but he's learned his lesson (hopefully).
Victarion Greyjoy - Yes. His arc has been one long slaughter of innocent people. Plus he's dim.
Aeron Greyjoy - No.
Bran Stark - No. Could potentially become one.
Arya Stark - No.
Stannis Baratheon - No.
Daenerys Targaryan - No.

[NOT A TARG I SWEAR]

Jaime...light gray. His one really bad deed was throwing Bran out the window. He's done some good things since, and he saved King's Lading from being incinerated.

Tywin...evil. Wiping out both the Reynes and Tarbecks to the last suckling babe is enough, but him loosing Gregor and Amory Lorch against the Riverlands puts the seal on it. 

Tyrion..mid-gray. He's done some fairly bad things but mostly tried to do good, at least until he was unjustly convicted of regicide.

Cersei..evil. Sexually abusing her baby brother was just the beginning of her arc. Age 9, pushing her playmate down a well to drown, plotting to kill her husband, causing the deaths of numerous dwarfs, sending Falyse Stokeworth to Qyburn are more low-lights.

Petyr..evil. Eaten up with envy of the great Houses, especially the Tullys and Starks, he contributes to a devastating civil war to get vengeance.

Varys..at best, mid-gray, at worst evil. Working to overthrow the realm to install his own candidate for king. Uses up dozens ,if not hundreds, ofchild slaves (whose toungues have been removed) in the process.

Theon..dark gray. He's basically a privileged snot who has done evil deeds but rescued Jeyne Poole from Ramsay and has suffered for some of his villainy. 

Victarion...gray. If he weren't such a cartoon he'd be evil. 

Aeron...just a religious wackadoodle.

Bran...still in the larval stage. Has done nothing good or bad, may go on to achieve greatness.

Arya..beyond good or evil, she's the personification of Divine Retribution. Mere mortals are unfit to judge her.

Stannis...light grey. Overall he's mostly done good, but he's too rigid and self-righteous in his judgments and punishments of others.

Daenerys..light gray. Her motives are mostly good but she shows bad judgement and is sometimes overly cruel. But then she's Blood of the Dragon and that comes with the territory.

 

 

I think I agree with this list the most thus far outside a few minor differences although not big into the whole villain label thing in stories like this.

[Good Guy Garlan]

I personally subscribe to the idea that one side's hero is another side's villain. Therefore I think they're all villains insofar as they are pitted against each other. 

Except Aeron. He's just a boring turd. 

[INCBlackbird]

Jaime...light gray. His one really bad deed was throwing Bran out the window. He's done some good things since, and he saved King's Lading from being incinerated.

Tywin...evil. Wiping out both the Reynes and Tarbecks to the last suckling babe is enough, but him loosing Gregor and Amory Lorch against the Riverlands puts the seal on it. 

Tyrion..mid-gray. He's done some fairly bad things but mostly tried to do good, at least until he was unjustly convicted of regicide.

Cersei..evil. Sexually abusing her baby brother was just the beginning of her arc. Age 9, pushing her playmate down a well to drown, plotting to kill her husband, causing the deaths of numerous dwarfs, sending Falyse Stokeworth to Qyburn are more low-lights.

Petyr..evil. Eaten up with envy of the great Houses, especially the Tullys and Starks, he contributes to a devastating civil war to get vengeance.

Varys..at best, mid-gray, at worst evil. Working to overthrow the realm to install his own candidate for king. Uses up dozens ,if not hundreds, ofchild slaves (whose toungues have been removed) in the process.

Theon..dark gray. He's basically a privileged snot who has done evil deeds but rescued Jeyne Poole from Ramsay and has suffered for some of his villainy. 

Victarion...gray. If he weren't such a cartoon he'd be evil. 

Aeron...just a religious wackadoodle.

Bran...still in the larval stage. Has done nothing good or bad, may go on to achieve greatness.

Arya..beyond good or evil, she's the personification of Divine Retribution. Mere mortals are unfit to judge her.

Stannis...light grey. Overall he's mostly done good, but he's too rigid and self-righteous in his judgments and punishments of others.

Daenerys..light gray. Her motives are mostly good but she shows bad judgement and is sometimes overly cruel. But then she's Blood of the Dragon and that comes with the territory.

 

 

Do you really think Petyr is out for vengeance because he's envious? I never got the impression that he had any kind of emotions about what he was doing beyond wanting power. But I'd be interested to hear your interpretation.

how exactly is Theon Privilged? I mean... yeah he's high class but so are most of the other characters and most of them didn't get beaten up by their brothers, made a captive at the age of 9, tortured by a maniac for 9 months...

By what kind of standard are you judging these characters? like what's your definition. Why does Arya specifically get a pass, when you look at it objectively of course. according to you she's done nothing wrong apparently, why is that? i'm not saying that you should think she's done things wrong but I'm just curious if you're judging everyone from an objective perspective. That's why I was asking for a definition, to see which parameters are important to everyone individually to judge all characters according to the same parameters without bias (or the least bias because it's of course impossible to not be biased at all)

Do you consider the fact that she's blood of the dragon an excuse for being overly cruel sometimes, or did you just mention that as an afterthought? just wondering.
 

[Belgarad]

Jaime Lannister - Reformed Villain.  Has turned the corner and seen the err of his ways.
Tywin Lannister - Villain. 
Tyrion Lannister - Rare compassionate person is his world.
Cersei Lannister - Batshit crazy villain, well on her way towards self-fulfilling the prophesy of her death.
Petyr Baelish - Villain.
Varys - Definitely out for his own interests, but not in the all out singlemindedness way of Tywin or Baelish.  Not a villain.
Theon Greyjoy - Tragic victim of circumstances.
Victarion Greyjoy - Hagar the Horrible of the story, nominally villainous, but so stupid it becomes pretty funny.
Aeron Greyjoy - Zealot
Bran Stark - Ignorant hero, only "evil" action he does is controlling Hodor.  But he has never been taught "the rules" of skinchanging like Varamyr was.  If he knew what kind of taboo he was crossing I don't think he would continue to do it.
Arya Stark - Cold-blooded murderer.
Stannis Baratheon - Zealot, not in a religious way, he's fairly open minded when it comes to that, but overly zealous in pursuit of what he believes is his by right.
Daenerys Targaryan - I don't see anyone else trying to end slavery in the world.

 

 

[bent branch]

No to all but Baelish.

[Farstrider]

This is aSoIaF, where one can be both villain and hero.  It's not an easy classification to do but here's my effort.

The Good Folks

1. Ned Stark
2. Barristan Selmy
3. Daenerys Targaryen
4. Sansa Stark
5. Brienne Tarth
6. Aemon
7. Ser Dunk

The In-Betweens, the Grays

1. Stannis Baratheon
2. Catelyn Stark
3. Lord Varys
4. Tyrion Lannister
5. Jorah Mormont
6. Jon Snow
7. Belwas

The Bad Folks

1. Petyr
2. Joffrey
3. Jaime
4. Cersei
5. Roose
6. Ramsay
7. Walder

Special Cases/Mitigating Circumstances

1. The Unsullied.  They've done bad things in killing pups and babies, but they were already brainwashed and dehumanized by that point that they had no free will left.  If anyone is beyond judgment, it's these guys as they are like children in some ways.
2. Arya.  Yes, she's traumatized.  I feel for the kid.  However, how do we know that some cold hearted killer like Bronn was not traumatized and buggered as a boy?  Yet, we don't excuse his actions.  I will consider Arya gray as long as she stops murdering people now.  Like, right now.  If she continues, she's blacker than black.  Pity about the insurance seller though. 

 

[David Selig]

Most of them except Bran, Arya, Stannis and Dany.

[Ethenil]

Jaime Lannister
Tywin Lannister
Tyrion Lannister
Cersei Lannister
Petyr Baelish
Varys
Theon Greyjoy
Victarion Greyjoy
Aeron Greyjoy
Bran Stark
Arya Stark
Stannis Baratheon
Daenerys Targaryan

Of these, currently, I only consider Tywin and Cersei Lannister villains. I do understand their actions and reasons, and can side with Tywin a few times, but still I consider them villains only because they were acting villanous to characters I consider good, such as Ned, Arya and Sansa.

As for Jaime (until ASoS) and Theon (until ADwD), I considered them villains for these same reasons until the stated books, mostly because they began to have a redemption arc of sorts. Nowadays Jaime is one of my favorite characters.

Depending on Victarion's and Petyr's future actions I might consider them villains. The rest I never considered villains, indeed, Tyrion, Bran, Arya, Daenerys and even Stannis I consider "good guys", even if I understand many flaws in character and actions.

 

 

 

[Wavey Sauce]

why exactly is Theon "a dirt bag"? What sets him appart from people like Jaime, Tyrion...? I would argue that Theon is very similar to Cersei actually, in the sense that they're both an emotional mess who lack any kind of self control. The only difference is that Theon actually feels guilty and Cersei doesn't, Cersei only displays self pity. So yeah, why is Theon a villain according to you and not Cersei (and many of the others).
I agree about littlefinger though, I really like the character but he caused the death of millions of people without any kind of remorse.

He is a rapist. Betrayed Robbs trust. If he wanted to fight for his father then fine, at least send a raven letting him know, Iron Born all act like they are bad asses, but then go attack the North when it is just old men woman and children.

 

And then to MURDER two innocent farm boys in cold blood, just to portray them as the Starks, and also what he did to WF in general.....

 

Theon is a walking pile of shit

 

And yes Cersei has done awful crap. But from the very start everything she did was to protect her and her kids from, death and letting the truth get out. Theons only motive was he wanted to make daddy proud and did all that BS

 

But on another topic, should have put Ramsay on the list. He is about as bad as it gets