purple-eyes Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Yes, But she's dead, His love for her is why he took Jon to raise on his own We were not talking about the Baratheons. We were talking about the great amount of love in the Stark family, and the book explicitly states that Brandon the Burner burnt the sunset fleet out of grief for the loss of his father so there is thatyeah, I know that. I just want to say he need to be a little bit insane to do that, even he has love and grief. You know, like somebody was refused by the woman he loved, then he killed her, something like that. not just how much love, but certainly some craziness. because it is not a sane thing fro a king to burn the whole fleet of your country because father lost in the sea. what if his daddy was killed by a horse? kill all horses in his country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon Blackfyre IV Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Not even then. It was the Manderlys and Umbers suggestion and Rodrik approved of it. The North probably does not have a lot of liquid cash and other things took priority such as feeding the realm during winter. The North has been part of the realm for 300 years, a Navy is only essential if they are looking to gain independence, which they had not done till the events of this series. The North had two huge coasts meaning for their Navy to be effective they would need two of them. That is a huge cost especially considering that the Ironborn have only been a major threat a handful of times in the last 3 centuries. The Lannisters do, the Crownlands did and Vale has some kind of fleet at Gulltown considering Robb wanted to use them to get home. The three major Navies in Westeros are the Ironborn, Royal and Redwyne but the other realms have fleets as well. pretty sure it was Bran Stark who ordered the two houses to work together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 pretty sure it was Bran Stark who ordered the two houses to work together Nope it was Rodrik who ordered them to work together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Arthur Hightower Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 The problem isn't so much that they don't have a permanent navy, as LittleDragon said that would be expensive and wouldn't have helped the North a great deal in the past 400 years or more, the problem is it seems that they have no ships at all.Not all countries in Medieval Europe have permanent navies, but to my knowledge every country with a medium sized coastline has had some way of acquiring ships when needed, either through borrowing or confiscating them from subjects, or borrowing or hiring them from an ally.It's fairly stupid that kingdoms most vulnerable to naval attack have no fleets: the Vale, the North and Dorne are all defenceless from the sea. Having access to ships of some kind would be essential to any medieval kingdom, otherwise they couldn't stop coastal raiding, and inability to defend an area is tantamount to losing ownership of that area.Consider that if a couple of dozen men decided to buy a skiff together and become pirates off of the North, the Starks would be able to do nothing about it. Unless they stayed ashore for too long the Starks would have to appeal for help from the Iron Throne to stop a single ship raiding their villages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 yeah, I know that. I just want to say he need to be a little bit insane to do that, even he has love and grief. You know, like somebody was refused by the woman he loved, then he killed her, something like that. not just how much love, but certainly some craziness. because it is not a sane thing fro a king to burn the whole fleet of your country because father lost in the sea. what if his daddy was killed by a horse? kill all horses in his country? You assume that everyone is always practical in a fantasy novel involving tree gods, fire magic, giants, shadow baby assassins and dragons. He did it for his reasons, but the story told of it years later is one of a Son's love for his father and grief at his loss and also to drive home a point that for all practical purposes of the story, there is nothing west of westeros that can be sailed to with current sailing technology Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khal drogon Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 yeah, I know that. I just want to say he need to be a little bit insane to do that, even he has love and grief. You know, like somebody was refused by the woman he loved, then he killed her, something like that. not just how much love, but certainly some craziness. because it is not a sane thing fro a king to burn the whole fleet of your country because father lost in the sea. what if his daddy was killed by a horse? kill all horses in his country? No point in arguing this. If he was a Targ instead of 'Paragon' Stark everyone would have accepted he was crazy.Dorne not having a fleet is more surprising. They are near the Stepstones and some of the naval powers like Myr and Lys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukle Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 The Iron Islanders build immense fleets with far fewer resources than the North. They don't even have forest to make the wood!They are building longboats, too, which are very cheap. And also not difficult to design or make.The difference between a longship for fishing and one for raiding is how many weapons the sailors have. The North has no excuse not to have a fleet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 You can say the same thing about Dorne. How come Lemonwood or the Tor or Ghost Hill or any of the Houses located near the shore haven't got their own fleet just because Nymeria got carried away while using a figure of speech? Disclaimer: My knowledge of Dornish geography sucks. I think the Dornish coast (or at least large parts of it) is supposed to be difficult to approach/land ships on because of things like whirlpools, cliffs, rocks etc. I can't recall for certain but I think that is the case. Though iirc there are ships at Planky Town - presumably that is the most convenient place on the coast to Dock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watcher of the night Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 The Iron Islanders build immense fleets with far fewer resources than the North. They don't even have forest to make the wood!Which makes you wonder how on earth do they build all those longboats ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 To be honest, I truly think Martin simply included the one paragraph on Brandon the Burner and his father to provide a vaguely reasonable excuse for the Ironborn to invade the North without any trouble or forewarning during the War of the Five Kings. I doubt he thought about it much further than that. Its absurdity emerges rather quickly, once you apply your mind to it.As for Theon Stark's invasion of Andalos - Theon lived probably a millenium or more before Brandon the Burner, so in fact, the Starks did have a strong fleet for more than a thousand years. It was only after Brandon the Burner lived (around 600 years ago or so by my guess), that this came to an end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Which makes you wonder how on earth do they build all those longboats ... Raids on the North, presumably.That and the amazing recycling program they have in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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