HexMachina Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 6 hours ago, Crixus said: Or this: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/pittsburgh-shooting-at-least-five-dead-and-several-injured-with-suspects-still-at-large-in-a6922381.html Hanging out at a cookout, shot and killed. Clearly they weren't a Responsible Gun Owner and their actions thus have no bearing on anyone else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted March 10, 2016 Author Share Posted March 10, 2016 7 hours ago, Crixus said: And then you have this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/12189432/Pro-gun-activist-shot-by-her-own-son-after-boasting-of-firearm-training-on-social-media.html Things would have been different if she'd had a Good Toddler with a Gun to protect her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 6 hours ago, Tywin et al. said: That's funny, just a few months ago you strongly disagreed with the idea that we're averaging one mass shooting per week in the U.S. Yet here you are, saying we're averaging multiple inner city mass shootings each week. And that doesn't include all of the other mass shootings. I see you're putting your Masters Degree in hypocrisy to good use. Making shit up and resorting to ad hominem? That's a low point from your usual position of simply not knowing what the fuck you are talking about. You'd think after how badly you got embarrassed in that conversation that you'd want to let it be forgotten, but apparently not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 14 minutes ago, Swordfish said: Making shit up and resorting to ad hominem? That's a low point from your usual position of simply not knowing what the fuck you are talking about. You'd think after how badly you got embarrassed in that conversation that you'd want to let it be forgotten, but apparently not. Hahahahahahahahaha. What did I make up? You've now said both that we do not average one mass shooting per week and we have mass shootings every week in our inner cities. And how did I get embarrassed? I used the numbers you prefered and changed the ratio from one mass shooting per week to one mass shooting every 11 days. I think anyone who can read knows who is embarrassed right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 27 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: Hahahahahahahahaha.What did I make up? You've now said both that we do not average one mass shooting Link? ETA: Either way, the point remains. The public has been ignoring mass shootings for years. Unless they happen to white suburbanites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonesy Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 I just want to know what McBigski ended up getting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 1 hour ago, Swordfish said: Link? I agree with your ETA. I looked, and was confused why there was nothing from October and then remembered the board reset. Anyways, here is a short recap: I posted a link that claimed we were averaging roughly one mass shooting per week through the first 42 weeks of 2015 (the article cited 44 mass shootings). You claimed 17 of them shouldn't count for various reasons, and I said fine, redid the math, and came back with a the new number of one mass shooting roughly every 10.5 days. There was nothing embarrassing about it, so IDK why you just claimed that. And I was just having a little fun pointing out the rather large discrepancy between you disagreeing with my statement that we were averaging about one mass shooting each week in 2015 and you saying yesterday that we're averaging mass shootings every week in our inner cities. Can you see now why I called it hypocrisy? ETA: Also, to make your claim true that we're seeing mass shootings every week in our inner cities, you'd likely have to include many of the types of examples you had wanted excluded in our previous conversation. I looked it up and you're right that there are mass shootings every week in our inner cities (well at least once a week, sometimes more), but to make that correct you'd have to include a lot of examples where 4-5 people got shot and maybe 1 person died. Examples like those made up a lot of the ones you wanted me to exclude. Anyways, till next time, keep your aces smoking Swordfish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 5 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: I agree with your ETA. I looked, and was confused why there was nothing from October and then remembered the board reset. Anyways, here is a short recap: I posted a link that claimed we were averaging roughly one mass shooting per week through the first 42 weeks of 2015 (the article cited 44 mass shootings). You claimed 17 of them shouldn't count for various reasons, and I said fine, redid the math, and came back with a the new number of one mass shooting roughly every 10.5 days. There was nothing embarrassing about it, so IDK why you just claimed that. And I was just having a little fun pointing out the rather large discrepancy between you disagreeing with my statement that we were averaging about one mass shooting each week in 2015 and you saying yesterday that we're averaging mass shootings every week in our inner cities. Can you see now why I called it hypocrisy? I believe that we were talking then specifically about school shootings, were we not? If you're talking about some other conversation, then I do not recall it. Either way, it has nothing to do with the overall point here. Which is that it is only surprising to anyone when we ignore mass shootings of white suburbanites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 1 minute ago, Swordfish said: I believe, if I remember correctly, that we were talking then specifically about school shootings, were we not? I don't think so, but you could be right. Who knows. Kind of a shame the board ate the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 What would have happened to this family without a firearm? From MSNBC: http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/an-escaped-murder-suspect-took-a-family-hostage-the-family-fought-back/ar-AAgEDWW?li=BBnb7Kz&OCID=msnHomepage From the article: McCloud pounced. Armed with a knife, he forced the family back inside the home. Then he tied up the husband and held all three hostage inside the bathroom. If the stage seemed set for a sequel to the hospital slaying, then the family had other ideas. After several hours of captivity, the husband suddenly slipped his bonds and attacked the intruder. McCloud stabbed the man in the back of his shoulder, then tied him back up again. But the wife somehow persuaded McCloud to let her leave the bathroom. When she returned, she was holding the family’s handgun. She shot McCloud. Then she cut loose her husband, who promptly fired several more bullets into the intruder, police said. The family ran outside into the rain and flagged down a passing car, whose driver called 911. When police arrived, they found the fugitive slumped over the bathtub, Warren County Deputy Coroner Kelda Bailess told the AP. He had been killed by his own hostages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 And for clarities sake I'm not saying this means everyone should go out and buy a firearm, I'm certainly not about to, or that firearms shouldn't be subject to reasonable regulation, they should be. I post the article above to point out that, indeed, sometimes, having a firearm can save lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mance Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 2 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: I post the article above to point out that, indeed, sometimes, having a firearm can save lives. It's really not clear that any lives would have been lost without the gun, though. I mean, I get the fear and the threat of violence from being held hostage. And I don't blame the wife for shooting their captor one bit. But the fugitive sounds reluctant to have actually killed anyone, else why just tie the husband back up after he breaks his bonds? Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the husband faces charges for executing the captor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liffguard Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 8 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: And for clarities sake I'm not saying this means everyone should go out and buy a firearm, I'm certainly not about to, or that firearms shouldn't be subject to reasonable regulation, they should be. I post the article above to point out that, indeed, sometimes, having a firearm can save lives. And sometimes wearing a seatbelt can kill you. I can probably find anecdotes to that effect. But it would be dumb to set policy based on those anecdotes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Liffguard, How many people own firearms safely and without incident their entire adult lives in the US compaired to the number of accidents and indicents with firearms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liffguard Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 26 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Liffguard, How many people own firearms safely and without incident their entire adult lives in the US compaired to the number of accidents and indicents with firearms? No idea. Just pointing out that an anecdote isn't the same as an argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maarsen Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 45 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: And for clarities sake I'm not saying this means everyone should go out and buy a firearm, I'm certainly not about to, or that firearms shouldn't be subject to reasonable regulation, they should be. I post the article above to point out that, indeed, sometimes, having a firearm can save lives. Scot, after being tied up for several hours, would not any reasonably astute home invader, knowing of the prevalence of firearms in American homes, do a search for one. In that case, having done a search, found a firearm, the life saved would then be the culprit's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Maarsan, Apprently not. Or the weapon was properly secured in a gun safe that the invader couldn't acess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodRider Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 2 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: And for clarities sake I'm not saying this means everyone should go out and buy a firearm, I'm certainly not about to, or that firearms shouldn't be subject to reasonable regulation, they should be. I post the article above to point out that, indeed, sometimes, having a firearm can save lives. Well - that's nice. It also is pointedly NOT what most people are not arguing. It is a risk vs. benefits analysis. And if it is a right of gun-holders to put others at risk to their own benefit. I mean, setting aside if this story actually proves that a life was saved specifically by the gun, or the fact that she could have been disarmed, or missed and gotten tied back up, or... Still setting that aside, that guy trapped in that canyon saved his life by hacking off his arm. I do not think therefore that one should take surgical saws on camping trips. EDIT: And I see Liffguard found a better analogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 BR, I agree anecdote is insufficent. I would love to see a neutral study about the defensive use of firearms by US citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 BR, I agree anecdote is insufficent. I would love to see a neutral study about the defensive use of firearms by US citizens. scot, why do you want to read a study about people legally killing other people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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