Rant and Rave Without Repercussions - Includes Season 6 Spoilers

[A Ghost of Someone]

They either forgot about Tysha or thought most people did, or they just do not care.

[Le Cygne]

2 hours ago, ArabellaVidal said:

I actually saw this as typical of the character that Shae is in the books. You know, making fun of Lollys' misery and all. But, in retrospect, it's a "let's whitewash Tyrion" thing.

And Cersei, and Tywin. So basically, they whitewashed all the Lannisters except Jaime. They monsterwashed him.

And let's not forget, Arya chose to be Lanna, not Cat. The real Arya would rather die than call herself Lanna.

[Woman of War]

28 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

They either forgot about Tysha or thought most people did, or they just do not care.

Well, an at least reasonable excuse would be that in a visual medium the audience tends to care about characters that have been really present on screen. So they decided for Shae as Tyrion's nightmare. While in a book living and lost characters have the same degree of reality, different medium.

I still hope that the Tysha revelation might be a climax in a totally different situation and the lost complexity comes back then. Obviously I have no desire to wash away the "stain of sin" from Tysha since how immoral or sinful can a thirteen year old child be who tries to make some extra money by a little acting. Not to mention that prostitution is a job and not a sin. Yet I don't think that we will ever meet the real Tysha, neither in books nor on screen, even if we might hear about her fate.

[Le Cygne]

58 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

They either forgot about Tysha or thought most people did, or they just do not care.

Well, Tyrion certainly didn't forget the innocent and much wronged woman. GRRM says it's Tyrion's darkest deed, killing Shae and abandoning Tysha. He thought of Tysha over a dozen times, over and over, and he calls her his wife in the present day. Of course they tossed out the forced marriage to Sansa like it was nothing on the show. I think in the books, LF knows the marriage to Tysha was not annulled.

Here's that article:

Quote

With Shae, it’s a much more deliberate and in some ways a crueler thing. It’s not the action of a second, because he’s strangling her slowly and she’s fighting, trying to get free. He could let go at any time. But his anger and his sense of betrayal is so strong that he doesn’t stop until it’s done and that’s probably the blackest deed that he’s ever done. It’s the great crime of his soul along with what he did with his first wife by abandoning her after the little demonstration Lord Tywin put on. Now by the standards of Westeros, that’s hardly a crime at all – “So a lord killed a whore, big deal.” He’s not likely to be punished for that any more than any other lords and knights who treat lowborn women and prostitutes and tavern wenches with contempt and use them and discard them. It’s nothing to the world, but it’s again something that’s going to haunt him, while the act of killing his father is something of enormous consequence that would be forever beyond the pale, for no man is as cursed as a kinslayer.

http://www.ew.com/article/2014/06/16/game-of-thrones-finale-martin

[Woman of War]

6 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Well, Tyrion certainly didn't forget the innocent and much wronged woman. GRRM says it's Tyrion's darkest deed, killing Shae and abandoning Tysha. He thought of her over a dozen times, over and over, and he calls her his wife in the present day. Of course they tossed out the forced marriage to Sansa like it was nothing on the show. I think in the books, LF knows the marriage to Tysha was not annulled.

Baelish may not know anything about the real Tysha - but he may try to present a fake Tysha for the purpose of annulment. Only so far a delicious turn like that went down the drain in the show.

[Arrow of the Morning]

10 minutes ago, Woman of War said:

Baelish may not know anything about the real Tysha - but he may try to present a fake Tysha for the purpose of annulment. Only so far a delicious turn like that went down the drain in the show.

Littlefinger definitively knows where whores go.

[LazyBazooka]

1 hour ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

They either forgot about Tysha or thought most people did, or they just do not care.

Could've replaced that damn beetle scene with Tyrion talking about Tysha and Jaime acting shifty as fuck throughout it, would've been the perfect set up and reminded the audience of Tyrion's first wife. But the Ds' reasoning for not including the Tysha reveal was that they thought the audience forgot about her (their own fault for not talking about her ever again since season 1, except twice in season 3, but is never referred to by name) and they wanted to have Jaime and Tyrion's goodbye end on a happier note, but then have Jaime want to kill Tyrion in the next season.

Tywin is Lawful Neutral but they kept in him having Tyrion's wife gangraped and making Tyrion watch. 

[Le Cygne]

I think Graves said the reason was it would be too complicated. The D's originally had Tysha in the script, he lobbied to take it out. He wanted them to just kiss and say goodbye.

So then later, Evil Jaime wants to break St. Tyrion in two. The sainted one, on the other hand, has no such feelings for Jaime. How could he? He's the wronged one, always.

Also this is getting to be a thing, having Bronn chide Jaime for not worshipping St. Tyrion. Expect more in season 6...

[aFeastForDragons]

If they had Tysha in then Jaime would be portrayed at a Ramsey level of evil after raping Cersei and all the other crap. 

[Le Cygne]

Well, they managed to make him look bad anyway, he wants to kill Tyrion. They are the ones who changed the consensual scene to rape in the first place. They said that was horrible but something he would do.

If anything, it makes Tyrion look worse, see the GRRM quote above. He abandoned her, thinking she was a whore. But she wasn't, and Jaime tells him this in the books. And it makes Tywin look worse.

And of course, the scene where he kills Tywin makes no sense. He's all pissed off because Tywin calls a whore a whore. In the books, he calls Tysha a whore, but she wasn't. They shot themselves in the foot.

[Meera of Tarth]

1 hour ago, Le Cygne said:

And Cersei, and Tywin. So basically, they whitewashed all the Lannisters except Jaime. They monsterwashed him.

And let's not forget, Arya chose to be Lanna, not Cat. The real Arya would rather die than call herself Lanna.

I wonder if they chosed Lanna instead of Cat because. The viewers would have gt confused with Catelyn and Cat (like asha and yara) or if thy thought that they couldn't be as faithful to the books. Because Cat is canon and Lanna is another charactr in the books and creatively it made sense to ten

 

1 hour ago, Le Cygne said:

And Cersei, and Tywin. So basically, they whitewashed all the Lannisters except Jaime. They monsterwashed him.

And let's not forget, Arya chose to be Lanna, not Cat. The real Arya would rather die than call herself Lanna.

viewers wiyld be confused with Catelyn or instead cratively it made sense to them not to be faithful to the book

[Gabriele]

14 hours ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

 

In the books, that is what Maggy the Frog is known for and it is not by chance that Sybella and Jeyne are her decendents. Robb told his mother that he meant to marry a Frey girl but it was the combination of grief, his injuries, he was bed ridden and something made them do it.  they are also having sex multiple times a day he tells Cat and they are crazy about each other. Robb knew the consequences of this with the Freys but did it anyway. Robb was pretty level headed and winning until this point. He took his oaths seriously and was going to hang the Greatjohn if he broke his. I think love potion was used and since GRRM says that Jeyne Westerling will be in the prologe of TWOW, we may get a confirmation if, IF the POV of the prologue is Sybella Spicer Westerling.

Robb is pretty much Edward IV during the War of the Roses here. The Duke of Warwick had brokered a marriage with the French king's daughter and gained support Edward needed at this stage, but Edward secretly married Elisabeth Woodville (and over time put the rest of her family into important positions). Warwick was so pissed he changed sides and joined the Lancasters.

Though there was no Red Wedding for Edward. He grew into Robert, overweight and womanizing.

[Meera of Tarth]

love this new forum works prrfectly

[Le Cygne]

3 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I wonder if they chosed Lanna instead of Cat because. The viewers would have gt confused with Catelyn and Cat (like asha and yara) or if thy thought that they couldn't be as faithful to the books. Because Cat is canon and Lanna is another charactr in the books and creatively it made sense to ten

Except Catelyn and Cat are, in fact, the same person. So that's the opposite of the reason for calling Asha Yara, that was to not confuse two different people, Asha and Osha.

No, they just aren't into Catelyn, and it sailed over their heads why Arya chose that name. And why she would never choose Lanna.

[ArabellaVidal]

7 minutes ago, Gabriele said:

Robb is pretty much Edward IV during the War of the Roses here. The Duke of Warwick had brokered a marriage with the French king's daughter and gained support Edward needed at this stage, but Edward secretly married Elisabeth Woodville (and over time put the rest of her family into important positions). Warwick was so pissed he changed sides and joined the Lancasters.

Though there was no Red Wedding for Edward. He grew into Robert, overweight and womanizing.

I love this post so much. Even though it's not on topic. I'm currently reading Penman's The Sunne in Splendour and I can recognize elements GRRM either consciously or subconsciously used from that particular novel, not just the history of the Wars of the Roses.

[ArabellaVidal]

6 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Except Catelyn and Cat are, in fact, the same person. So that's the opposite of the reason for calling Asha Yara, that was to not confuse two different people, Asha and Osha.

No, they just aren't into Catelyn, and it sailed over their heads why Arya chose that name. And why she would never choose Lanna.

Agreed. They could simply have given her another name, if the reason was to not confuse. Either they are truly oblivious of the connotations of their choice or they are deliberately signalling their lack of care for the books.

[TepidHands]

19 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Except Catelyn and Cat are, in fact, the same person. So that's the opposite of the reason for calling Asha Yara, that was to not confuse two different people, Asha and Osha.

No, they just aren't into Catelyn, and it sailed over their heads why Arya chose that name. And why she would never choose Lanna.

I just cannot forgive them making such a stink about female characters' names and then leaving in a Bran and a Bronn and a Jon Arryn and Jon Snow and a Robb and a Robert. But considereing their female characters are interchangeable or, in Brienne's case, a lesbian, I guess creatively it makes sense. 

[Le Cygne]

2 minutes ago, TepidHands said:

I just cannot forgive them making such a stink about female characters' names and then leaving in a Bran and a Bronn and a Jon Arryn and Jon Snow and a Robb and a Robert. But considereing their female characters are interchangeable or, in Brienne's case, a lesbian, I guess creatively it makes sense. 

Interchangeable female units are best given no specific personality traits. Much easier that way.

[Tijgy]

2 minutes ago, TepidHands said:

I just cannot forgive them making such a stink about female characters' names and then leaving in a Bran and a Bronn and a Jon Arryn and Jon Snow and a Robb and a Robert. But considereing their female characters are interchangeable or, in Brienne's case, a lesbian, I guess creatively it makes sense. 

Never forget Olly and Olyvar  

(except for the Bran and Bronn, the names of Robb and Jon (Snow) are actually sort of important ... because Ned named them after them ... but then they called sweetrobin robin and not robert to avoid confusion )

[Le Cygne]

Not on the show. He's not Sweetrobin on the show.