U.S. Election - Because we know better than you do

[Shryke]

I ain't arguing against it, I'm just saying it can make polling a pain in the ass because it's harder to determine likely voters for your model.

[Gertrude]

I know you weren't. I was just mentioning it because the extra head-ache for workers is something I am aware of through my mom and something rolling around in my head. I totally get why it's a thing - you want to make it easy and painless for people to register. I'm just not sold that registering the day of is the best use of resources on an election day. I'm also aware I'm getting one side of one person's story, so was wondering if anyone felt strongly about it one way or the other.

[aceluby]

I feel very strongly for same day registration, we don't need to make voting more difficult and/or lower voter turnout to even worse than it is; but I also think that everyone should automatically be registered when they file their taxes.

[Commodore]

Nevada is just dumb, especially on the Dem side

http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P16/NV-D

All nonbinding, delegates picking higher delegates who pick even higher delegates. 

[OnionAhaiReborn]

The establishment looks like this: The real reason why Clintons always push our politics to the right

The morning after the last Clinton-Sanders debate, a friend tweeted, “Generally speaking, debates are as much a dispute about what the debate is about as anything else,” which instantly struck a chord for me.

It’s clarifying to think in terms of the two broad organizing visions the two candidates represent, each influencing how the respective candidates view the world.

Visions, however, can take a while to unpack, and fully understand. So let me tick off three successive arguments. First is an argument of the party elite versus the party base. Second is an argument between Clinton’s market-based, individualist vision, which sits well with elites who overwhelmingly support her, and Sanders’ social democratic vision—universal healthcare, free public college, a minimum $15/hour living wage, etc.—which speaks to the base, women possibly even more than men. Third is an argument between two different conceptions of progress reflecting both those two different constituencies.

Clinton’s elite, individualistic worldview reflects the logic, values and organization of the liberal welfare state model found in English-speaking nations around the world, which primarily aims to remedy market imperfections with minimal interference to the basic market system. Sanders’ base, social democratic worldview reflects the socialist or social democratic welfare state model found in Nordic countries, which is grounded in humanistic values, providing livable social benefits for all, and treating the market as a means, not an end. We’ll return to discuss these worldviews further, below.

[Gertrude]

Aceluby, if registration were as widespread and as easy as registering with tax filings, driver's license, available at high schools, etc, would you still feel strongly about same-day registration? Is it just because it's an easy way for people to register, or is there something about the same-day part that you feel strongly about?

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

19 hours ago, Altherion said:

I'm not familiar with the details of that potential deal so I don't know whether walking away from it was the best option. However, note that bullying and threats can actually be quite effective when you are backed by an 800lb gorilla.

That worked out well for that Austrian fellow, whose name I won't mention. In the short term.

[aceluby]

17 minutes ago, Gertrude said:

Aceluby, if registration were as widespread and as easy as registering with tax filings, driver's license, available at high schools, etc, would you still feel strongly about same-day registration? Is it just because it's an easy way for people to register, or is there something about the same-day part that you feel strongly about?

It's just because it's an easy way for people to register that I feel strongly about it.  I feel much more strongly that registration should be basically automatic for everyone for pretty much any government interaction such as any licensing, tax filing, or signing up for the draft.  

[OnionAhaiReborn]

Piketty <3 Bernie

How can we interpret the incredible success of the “socialist” candidate Bernie Sanders in the US primaries? The Vermont senator is now ahead of Hillary Clinton among Democratic-leaning voters below the age of 50, and it’s only thanks to the older generation that Clinton has managed to stay ahead in the polls. 

Because he is facing the Clinton machine, as well as the conservatism of mainstream media, Sanders might not win the race. But it has now been demonstrated that another Sanders – possibly younger and less white – could one day soon win the US presidential elections and change the face of the country. In many respects, we are witnessing the end of the politico-ideological cycle opened by the victory of Ronald Reagan at the 1980 elections.

...

Reagan also decided to freeze the federal minimum wage level, which from 1980 was slowly but surely eroded by inflation (little more than $7 an hour in 2016, against nearly $11 in 1969). Again, this new political-ideological regime was barely mitigated by the Clinton and Obama years.

Sanders’ success today shows that much of America is tired of rising inequality and these so-called political changes, and intends to revive both a progressive agenda and the American tradition of egalitarianism. Hillary Clinton, who fought to the left of Barack Obama in 2008 on topics such as health insurance, appears today as if she is defending the status quo, just another heiress of the Reagan-Clinton-Obama political regime.

Sanders makes clear he wants to restore progressive taxation and a higher minimum wage ($15 an hour). To this he adds free healthcare and higher education in a country where inequality in access to education has reached unprecedented heights, highlighting a gulf standing between the lives of most Americans, and the soothing meritocratic speeches pronounced by the winners of the system.

[Lightysnake88]

"Clinton is only ahead because of the people who tend to vote" in other words.

[Altherion]

Picketty is partially correct, but I think he underestimates the resilience of the system. For example, a lot of people thought that we were electing somebody fairly similar to Sanders (though younger and less white) in 2008, but, as Piketty points out, he fits perfectly together with Reagan's heirs (i.e. the Reagan-Clinton-Obama political regime).

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

42 minutes ago, Altherion said:

Picketty is partially correct, but I think he underestimates the resilience of the system. For example, a lot of people thought that we were electing somebody fairly similar to Sanders (though younger and less white) in 2008, but, as Piketty points out, he fits perfectly together with Reagan's heirs (i.e. the Reagan-Clinton-Obama political regime).

Not really. Obama was never as liberal as people made him out to be.

[Shryke]

52 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Not really. Obama was never as liberal as people made him out to be.

Seriously. I can remember saying that here back in 2008. Obama was not running a hard left platform. Him and 2008 Clinton (who let's remember was more centrist then 2016 Clinton) had basically the same platforms. The GOP tried to frame him as the liberalist libby who ever libbed cause that's what they always try to do but that's not what he ever ran on.

Obama's Hope and Change was about the attitude in DC not about a left-wing revolution.

[Kalbear]

He's not as liberal as Sanders makes himself out to be but he is pretty close to being as liberal as Sanders actually is. 

He ran on universal healthcare, helping student loan debt, volunteer work, closing Gitmo, grassroots campaigning, his vote on Iraq and his own personal bona fides for civil liberties. He was much stronger on guns than Sanders has been and (at the time) was much more about nonintervention. 

Heck, both wanted to reduce campaign financing too. 

The big difference is probably their view on religion (Obama has always been about having religion in his life) and gun rights. But otherwise they're very close, especially on that 2008 campaign. (2012 Obama was a bit more conservative)

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

20 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

He's not as liberal as Sanders makes himself out to be but he is pretty close to being as liberal as Sanders actually is. 

He ran on universal healthcare, helping student loan debt, volunteer work, closing Gitmo, grassroots campaigning, his vote on Iraq and his own personal bona fides for civil liberties. He was much stronger on guns than Sanders has been and (at the time) was much more about nonintervention. 

 

 Eh, not sure I can agree with that assessment. He didn't close Gitmo. He signed off on the government being able to arrest and hold its' own citizenry without a warrant, and he had U.S. citizens killed remotely. I suppose you could say you don't know what Sanders would do under the same circumstance, but I don't think Obama is anywhere near as liberal as Sanders is.

[Kalbear]

Just now, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

 Eh, not sure I can agree with that assessment. He didn't close Gitmo. He signed off on the government being able to arrest and hold its' own citizenry without a warrant, and he had U.S. citizens killed remotely. I suppose you could say you don't know what Sanders would do under the same circumstance, but I don't think Obama is anywhere near as liberal as Sanders is.

I'm not saying that's what Obama is - but it is what Obama campaigned on. Obama promised to close Gitmo in his first year, for instance. He wanted to get us out of Afghanistan and Iraq. He wanted to reduce the Patriot Act. A lot of his campaigning was around the notion of creating a grassroots revolution where everyone could start working together towards these things. 

Someone compared this election to a fight between Obama 2012 and Obama 2008, and that seems more correct. 

[DanteGabriel]

1 minute ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

 Eh, not sure I can agree with that assessment. He didn't close Gitmo. He signed off on the government being able to arrest and hold its' own citizenry without a warrant, and he had U.S. citizens killed remotely. I suppose you could say you don't know what Sanders would do under the same circumstance, but I don't think Obama is anywhere near as liberal as Sanders is.

He did try to close Gitmo, but Congress blocked it.

I agree in general with the larger point that he's not as liberal as Sanders. I've said for years that people should have known Obama was not that liberal after his stance on FISA courts and warrantless wiretapping. It seemed like a big deal during the 2008 election cycle and it's mostly forgotten now.

[Kalbear]

1 minute ago, DanteGabriel said:

He did try to close Gitmo, but Congress blocked it.

I agree in general with the larger point that he's not as liberal as Sanders. I've said for years that people should have known Obama was not that liberal after his stance on FISA courts and warrantless wiretapping. It seemed like a big deal during the 2008 election cycle and it's mostly forgotten now.

One could say the same thing about Sanders and his stance on gun laws, or in general his support for intervention and wars. Or minority rights. 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

2 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

I'm not saying that's what Obama is - but it is what Obama campaigned on. Obama promised to close Gitmo in his first year, for instance. He wanted to get us out of Afghanistan and Iraq. He wanted to reduce the Patriot Act. A lot of his campaigning was around the notion of creating a grassroots revolution where everyone could start working together towards these things. 

Someone compared this election to a fight between Obama 2012 and Obama 2008, and that seems more correct. 

Yeah, fair enough. That I would agree with. That last bit is an apt comparison methinks.

[DanteGabriel]

4 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

One could say the same thing about Sanders and his stance on gun laws, or in general his support for intervention and wars. Or minority rights. 

Sanders' rhetoric on financial regulation wins a lot more liberal points with me than a vote to bomb Kosovo.

I know there's a criticism of Sanders being out of touch on minority rights, but is there something in his voting record to suggest he is less progressive on that?