BloodRider Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 19 hours ago, Stan the Man Baratheon said: Footage of the extremist liberal being taken away by the USSS. Look at the aggressiveness of this liberal. Calm down Rorschach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 There are a number of precedents, that's true. It is also something that the becks and Limbaugh trumpet a lot. It is not something that trump would likely care about enforcing to any major degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 And furthermore most of that applies to crimes. As long as you're not charging with a crime, much of the protections such as jury trials or Miranda rights don't apply at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altherion Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 10 minutes ago, Kalbear said: There is no guaranteed due process for non us citizens. Yes, there is: Quote Generally, both legal and illegal immigrants have the right to bring suit in United States federal court. Federal civil rights statutes also expressly permit aliens to bring claims of civil rights violations in federal court. States have generally provided aliens with access to their court systems as well, provided that the alien resides within the particular state. Besides, at the very least you would have to first somehow determine that you are dealing with an illegal immigrant. You can't just stop random people on the street or go into people's homes -- nobody would support that and it's a blatant violation of the Fourth Amendment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 They have the right to bring suit. They do not have the specific right to have their alien status seen in court. Eta: when talking about deportation I was referring to due process. Once they're indicated with a deportation order they aren't guaranteed a court hearing of any kind. And that enforcement is at the discretion of the president and how they choose to enforce it. Obama for instance has indicated that every single minor must go through a hearing, but that was pretty controversial as it stands. There is a lot of latitude in what can be done. And the idea that trump would be impeached - on what grounds? What crime is committed here? There isn't one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackerNeil Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 2 hours ago, Azul DeLaRosa said: I'm stuck with her too. Though not enthusiastic, I will caucus for her this month. Not feeling Bernie at all. As an African american the Republicans outright scare me and Bernie seems a but distant and more interested in his base, which is not me, for sure. Somehow I am looking back at Bush and thinking "Maybe he was not that bad." Yes, yes he was. He was as bad as you remember and worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Walker Texas Ranger Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Ok, I take that back. Trump ~ Hitler is a valid comparison. I mean I think Sanders supporters aren't entirely innocent in this, but this wouldn't have escalated so far if Trump hadn't encouraged violence against annoying but peaceful protestors. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-threatens-to-set-supporters-on-sanders-rallies/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Also remember that hoax Stan posted? Oh, wait, I have to be more specific. Remember that hoax about how the guy who rushed trump was an isis supporter? Totally a hoax. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-protester-isis-hoax_us_56e57d2be4b0860f99d951ab&ved=0ahUKEwj3hLauz77LAhVO0WMKHXNiBhUQqG8IHTAA&usg=AFQjCNFVaqES1MMxhZDK1slqICtF55fy6A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Walker Texas Ranger Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Also remember that hoax Stan posted? Oh, wait, I have to be more specific. Remember that hoax about how the guy who rushed trump was an isis supporter? Totally a hoax. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-protester-isis-hoax_us_56e57d2be4b0860f99d951ab&ved=0ahUKEwj3hLauz77LAhVO0WMKHXNiBhUQqG8IHTAA&usg=AFQjCNFVaqES1MMxhZDK1slqICtF55fy6A He was still a dangerous asshole for trying to physically attack a political candidate giving a speech. And I say that someone who fantasizes that somebody Trump in the face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 4 minutes ago, White Walker Texas Ranger said: He was still a dangerous asshole for trying to physically attack a political candidate giving a speech. And I say that someone who fantasizes that somebody You-Know-Who in the face. Well, sure. It's also still a hoax, the second one in a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 I mean, it's not hard to understand why Trump gets Hitler comparisons when he actively tries to mimic the guy. http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/03/05/trump_supporters_raise_right_hands_to_pledge_support_to_donald_trump.html He also says things like this: "They're being politically correct the way they take them out," he sighed. "Protesters, they realize there are no consequences to protesting anymore. There used to be consequences. There are none anymore.""Knock the hell out of them. I promise you I will pay for the legal fees. I promise." "If you see someone getting ready to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of them, would you? Seriously. Knock the hell out of them. I promise you I will pay for the legal fees. I promise." There are times when I think Trump is just trolling us all with this shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 More on the deportation stuff. While there are a whole bunch of removed classifications of immigrants - undocumented, illegal or legal or otherwise - that get a hearing and a trial and a right to a lawyer, there are also a really huge amount of them that get nothing. A really easy example is the whole bunch of immigrants who get grabbed at or near the border and get sent right back over. There is no trial, no lawyer, no hearing, no nothing - just right back over the border. Note also that those who are staying after their visa expires (specifically a non-immigrant visa) can and often do have their removal expedited as well, which again means that they don't get any kind of trial until (often) they reapply at their own consulate in their own country. There are also things like deportation raids - which happen right now - that have a similar effect. Obama put into place the DACA proposal to somewhat help this, but only a bit. Now here's the problem with the current system. Clinton in 1996 put into place an act that essentially forces you to apply for documentation after you have left the US and had a ban, and that ban is essentially a 1-1 mapping between how long you were in the US illegally. This means that about 88% of the undocumented immigrants in the US would have to leave for at least 5 years (because 88% of the undocumented immigrants in the US have been living in the US for that long) and most for 10 years before getting documentation. They could easily be sponsored for a green card - they typically have long periods of working for the same company in the US or own businesses themselves - but cannot because of this lack of documentation. And while they are absolutely within their rights to do things like file suit against the government for stays of removal for various reasons, there is nothing that guarantees them a hearing. There is no constitutional right to a hearing. Even Scalia commented on this based on a decision in 2001, where it turns out that if you have committed a crime you are guaranteed a right to a hearing, trial, and everything that implies - but if you haven't, you aren't. There is also no guarantee that if you are a parent of a US citizen - as almost half of the undocumented population is - that you can stay. The US has in the past turned a blind eye to these people because destroying families and communities is kind of a bad thing, but there's nothing that states that this needs to happen. Also note that undocumented immigrants do not typically work for larger companies. The idea that it would seriously hurt companies in wall street is not actually backed by facts. Most companies are small to medium sized farming, construction, or forestry jobs. It might hurt a bit in the service industry, but likely only in things like hotels, and that's a pretty small set of the jobs. All data from here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 More pro wrestling fun, I guess... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-bernie-sanders-violence_us_56e56a6fe4b0860f99d94f22 Donald Trump Digs In After Weekend Violence, Threatens Bernie Sanders Rallies "Be careful Bernie, or my supporters will go to yours!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 If Donald Trump does end globalization - that would be a good thing. It's a failure, making the world worse, not better. They say globalization has made the world's poorest richer - but that is crap, stats derived entirely from Chinese growth and, now that China is in decline, it will be obvious. Also, I love the way everyone has to over-dramatize everything, or distill it to an either/or proposition. Trump being Hitler or Sanders being Stalin - any people that think like that deserve Trump as a leader. Trump is just proof that our species reaps what it sows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan the Man Baratheon Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 38 minutes ago, Martell Spy said: More pro wrestling fun, I guess... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-bernie-sanders-violence_us_56e56a6fe4b0860f99d94f22 Donald Trump Digs In After Weekend Violence, Threatens Bernie Sanders Rallies "Be careful Bernie, or my supporters will go to yours!" Absolutely its completely fair game now. Comrade Sanders doesn't disavow those extremists but was pounding on Donald Trump to disavow David Duke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 1 hour ago, Stan the Man Baratheon said: Absolutely its completely fair game now. Comrade Sanders doesn't disavow those extremists but was pounding on Donald Trump to disavow David Duke. One of these things is not like the other... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IheartIheartTesla Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 1 hour ago, Stan the Man Baratheon said: Absolutely its completely fair game now. Comrade Sanders doesn't disavow those extremists but was pounding on Donald Trump to disavow David Duke. You know, I've never objected really to people from other countries commenting on our electoral system. However, it is a bit much when someone from halfway around the world is fine with the instigation of violence in my country. This isn't an abstraction for most of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan the Man Baratheon Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 23 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: One of these things is not like the other... Agreed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fallen Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Like everything else Trumpian, The Donald doesn't need facts to make authoritative statements. Like Bernie Sanders being behind these protesters. Not to mention that Sanders has both denied the accusation and spoken out against the violence and rhetoric coming from the Big Bellicose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Stan, What possible reason is there for Trump to refuse to disavow David Duke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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