Parts of the Series You Have Trouble Taking Seriously

[Winter Rose Crown]

Greenhouses seem new since westerosi can't even make good glass. Jon says it comes from myr.

Sewers are also newish. They were first installed in kings landing, according to the world book.

Qyburn seems to be making some progress medicinally. And tobho learned a new way to mix dye with steel to get deeper colors.

[Winter Rose Crown]

Oh, and the saddle tyrion uses is a new invention!

[Rob Storm]

On March 26, 2016 at 4:41 PM, King Merrett I Frey said:

 

For me, Baelor Breakspear, a crowned prince, risking his life in a trial of seven for a dude that broke his nephew's arm was something bordering the absurd.

This was odd but I have a few counter points that it is not much different than the norm: 

As we saw, you could "tap-out" and get Mercy without death in the trial of 7 with Aerion.

Jousting and the Melee at tournaments has proven to be very dangerous and Rhaegar, Robert and other notable Lords and Princes compete.  

It was not a good idea by a character we expected good ideas from, we can all agree.  But it wasn't that unexpected or outside the breadth of the series from as honorable a knight we have seen in this series who knew his nephew was full-o-crap to defend an innocent man.  

I have trouble taking it seriously that Dany would be attracted to a  guy with blue hair.  

[Winter Rose Crown]

On 4/10/2016 at 10:10 AM, The Mountain That Flies said:

Seriously. Even if he knew Dunk was in the right, Baelor was the Hand of the King and Prince of Dragonstone. If he felt so passionately about justice he could have just told Aerion to eat a dick and drop the charges.

 

Lol, I wish he had said that. "The hedge knight attacked me!" "Eat a dick, aerion, no one cares."

 

Some people come in these threads with all these facts about the rate of wood decomposition and the velocity of arrows and I'm just like, there are dragons. Suspended disbelief and all that.

[Rob Storm]

I don't know if "taking seriously" is the correct term but I always thought the fact that Joffrey and then Tommen had a Stag-Lion sigil was pretty ridiculous.  An heir to the ruling family should not take on a personal sigil.  Maybe it could beTommen's personal sigil while Joff is King but there is no reason for Joffrey to adopt that as his sigil 15 years into the reign of his family.

 

And then it always just compounds the fact and rumors that he is Lannister...100% not even just 50%. Wearing any Lion gear rather than Stag after Stannis' accusations is just dumb in itself.   

 

I understand the fact that the Lannister family is just as powerful as the Baratheons and in that way, equal.  And I also believe that man/woman, husband/wife, ect are equal and i don't intend this to be an argument against that.  Just that in this culture it should be expected that the ruling family is BARATHEON and not Baratheon/Lannister.  

[HexMachina]

2 minutes ago, Rob Storm said:

I don't know if "taking seriously" is the correct term but I always thought the fact that Joffrey and then Tommen had a Stag-Lion sigil was pretty ridiculous.  An heir to the ruling family should not take on a personal sigil.  Maybe it could beTommen's personal sigil while Joff is King but there is no reason for Joffrey to adopt that as his sigil 15 years into the reign of his family.

 

And then it always just compounds the fact and rumors that he is Lannister...100% not even just 50%. Wearing any Lion gear rather than Stag after Stannis' accusations is just dumb in itself.   

 

I understand the fact that the Lannister family is just as powerful as the Baratheons and in that way, equal.  And I also believe that man/woman, husband/wife, ect are equal and i don't intend this to be an argument against that.  Just that in this culture it should be expected that the ruling family is BARATHEON and not Baratheon/Lannister.  

Rhaenyra Targaryen took the Targaryen dragon quartered with the Velaryon seahorse, so there is precedent

[Rob Storm]

16 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Rhaenyra Targaryen took the Targaryen dragon quartered with the Velaryon seahorse, so there is precedent

And things went about as well for each of them.  Just a joke, I had forgotten that, thanks.  I hated Joffrey obviously but just always found myself yelling at the page for him to stop wearing lions and toss on some gold and black every once and awhile. Probably Cersei's fault like most other things.  

 

Just wondering I don't have sources handy but did she take that sigil on before or after her children were accused of not being Velaryon?  She could have done that to deter rumors, whereas Joff's sigil only emboldened them.  

[Danelle]

28 minutes ago, Rob Storm said:

And things went about as well for each of them.  Just a joke, I had forgotten that, thanks.  I hated Joffrey obviously but just always found myself yelling at the page for him to stop wearing lions and toss on some gold and black every once and awhile. Probably Cersei's fault like most other things.  

 

Just wondering I don't have sources handy but did she take that sigil on before or after her children were accused of not being Velaryon?  She could have done that to deter rumors, whereas Joff's sigil only emboldened them.  

Initially Rhaenyra's sigil was a combination of the sigils of House Targaryen and House Arryn, emphasizing her connection to the targaryens and the arryns.

I don't think that is specified whether she combined the targaryen and velaryon sigil as a response to the rumours regarding the legitimacy of her children, but in any case it is not unusual for nobles to combine the sigils of their parents. Cleos Frey also wanted his Lannister heritage to be emphasised on his sigil. Likewise Harras Harlow also uses a combination of the sigils of Houses Harlaw and Serret, Little Walder combines the sigils of House Frey(father) and Crakehall (paternal grandmother) and Darry (mother) and finally Harry the Heir has combined the sigils of House Arryn (maternal grandmother mother), Hardyng(father) and Waynwood (maternal grandfather).

 

 

[Rob Storm]

3 minutes ago, Danelle said:

Initially Rhaenyra's sigil was a combination of the sigils of House Targaryen and House Arryn, emphasizing her connection to the targaryens and the arryns.

I don't think that is specified whether she combined the targaryen and velaryon sigil as a response to the rumours regarding the legitimacy of her children, but in any case it is not unusual for nobles to combine the sigils of their parents. Cleos Frey also wanted his Lannister heritage to be emphasised on his sigil. Likewise Harras Harlow also uses a combination of the sigils of Houses Harlaw and Serret, Little Walder combines the sigils of House Frey(father) and Crakehall (paternal grandmother) and Darry (mother) and finally Harry the Heir has combined the sigils of House Arryn (maternal grandmother mother), Hardyng(father) and Waynwood (maternal grandfather).

 

 

You are very right about those individuals.  To me at least though, the sigils of the main 7 kingdoms along with Targaryens have been constant for hundreds of years.  Comparing Little Walder to the heir to the iron throne whether it be Rhaenyra or Joffrey is a bit ridiculous to me.  Little Walder needs to do something to stick out amongst the hundreds of twin towers banners blowing about.  The heir to the Targaryen throne doesn't however.  

Hedge Knight's and such like Dunk make a coat of arms for themselves whereas the dire wolf, kraken, three-headed dragon, falcon, sunspear, trout (lol), speak for themself.  

Again, I know it's commonplace overall and maybe Rhaenyra was precedent for Joff but it just seemed odd how much Lannister association there was with King Joff Baratheon when the name Baratheon should be law of the land.  It only made things harder for the Lannisters.    

[Kingmonkey]

21 hours ago, Criston of House Shapper said:

It really is pretty big. I'm not a weapons expert, but using some numbers from wikipedia I calculated (roughly and very inaccurately) the heights to which one can shoot an arrow. If you shoot it straight up at about 50 m/s, you could get to about 250m or so, and then it probably wouldn't have the speed to actually injure anyone. I don't see an issue with shooting the other way, though.

Even with zero drag, you'd still have roughly 10m/s/s acceleration downwards due to gravity. Thus after 5 seconds, there would be zero upwards velocity. The average speed over those five seconds would therefore be half the initial speed (25m/s) and the distance travelled would be approximately 5x25=125m, not 250m. 

The maximum horizontal range for a bow is about 300m. There are a few recorded examples of shots going as far as around 340m, but very few archers would be capable of 300m. This is pure range shooting, not worrying about having any energy to actually cause damage -- practical range is more like 200m. That 300m would be the equivalent of 150m straight up (i.e it would have zero penetration at 150m). To be able to fire into targets standing on the wall, you'd need to fire at less than 90 degrees and still have some penetrative force on top of the wall -- let's say enough force to achieve 250m peak height at 75 degrees. That works out at about the same force it would take to make a horizontal range of 550m. This is assuming perfect conditions -- no wind resistance, no drift etc. Realistically it would take significantly more force. 

In short, every single one of those ill-trained and often starving wildling archers who got an arrow onto the wall would have utterly destroyed the world record. It would be like having dozens of the wildlings running a mile in under 2 minutes. 

As @Sept Sev mentioned, while firing down from the wall is far less of an issue in terms of power, the chance of actually hitting anything is so remote at that range -- particularly given things are pretty windy -- it would essentially be a waste of ammunition. Lobbing a handful of gravel would be cheaper, easier, and probably more effective. Ever looked down from a 700ft building at people in the street below?  

[Criston of House Shapper]

30 minutes ago, Kingmonkey said:

Even with zero drag, you'd still have roughly 10m/s/s acceleration downwards due to gravity. Thus after 5 seconds, there would be zero upwards velocity. The average speed over those five seconds would therefore be half the initial speed (25m/s) and the distance travelled would be approximately 5x25=125m, not 250m.

You are right, I just did the calculations again and I must've screwed up somehow yesterday.

I guess if you're on top of the Wall and shooting at a big group of Wildlings, you don't really have to aim, you can just shoot a couple of arrows and some will probably hit someone and then they're dead due to the velocity of the arrow. Maybe Mance should've let his giants shoot spears with bows, that would've worked.

[Ser Gareth]

The whole timing of the series is off with regards to the Others.

I find it absurd that information and "tasks" can be passed so readily around Westeros and yet despite the Night's Watch calling for assistance, and surely advising the realm the Others are back, no one gives a shit but Stannis, and that was only because his Hand was learning to read!

It's by far the biggest plot hole in the entire series.  It literally makes zero sense.

[The Fattest Leech]

39 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

The whole timing of the series is off with regards to the Others.

I find it absurd that information and "tasks" can be passed so readily around Westeros and yet despite the Night's Watch calling for assistance, and surely advising the realm the Others are back, no one gives a shit but Stannis, and that was only because his Hand was learning to read!

It's by far the biggest plot hole in the entire series.  It literally makes zero sense.

I don't disagree with you. For me it is frustrating that the southern houses and people ignore the NW requests. But I guess that goes along with the point that no one (other than wildlings and a few NW men) have seen the Others and think of them as grumpkins and snarks. If I remember correctly, it's mentioned somewhere in the books that the real reason of the Nights Watch being formed was "lost to time". The lack of written information or preservation of such info drives me nuts! But then again, maybe it's supposed to?

[Miss CS]

Females in combat kicking men's asses with ease is pretty silly. It's so common in fantasy, though. I just wish writers would slap themselves a little, but. I have never seen a girl kick a man's ass in real life. Not seriously, anyhow. Ever seen a mixed sex boxing match? No? There's a reason why not. It doesn't work, for obvious testosterone-related reasons of strength, speed, and aggression.

It isn't helping modern women by filling their heads with impossible fairy-tales. I've come across quite a few people now who think women can seriously defend themselves against men and leave them in a pool of blood. I suppose in an actual defense situation, the fear will kick in and they'll run and be safe. Woe to anybody who reckons Asha Greyjoy is actually a realistic female, but. Modern media might have some sorry stories to answer for, somewhere.

[King Edd of House Tollet]

Age of some characters

The Stark children being the most obvious example. I would make more sense to me if they were at least two years older

It's kinda hard imagine a girl of ten like Arya murdering people right way the way she does. Not that a twelve would make it more realistic, but, well, it's more plausible

[Vashon]

 

The part where the consequences stopped being realistic results of stupidity(Red Wedding), and started being WH40k Grimdark(Jeyne/Sansa rapedy rapedy rapedy)(Quenten Martelll). and various other things. The show is by far the worst offender though.

 

It's become Bad Guys Win, All The Time, Just Because.

[Bold Barry Whitebeard]

19 hours ago, Wolf of the Steppes said:

I agree that the vast majority of their "magic" is smoke and mirrors and illusions.  We know that much of Melissandre's "magic" is just that by her POV chapters in ADwD.  

However, I don't know how the Beric resurrections could be false.  From multiple sources we hear about how he was killed numerous times. If it wasn't true for Beric, then how could we have Lady Stoneheart?  Catelyn was dead for 3 days and pulled out of the Green Fork.  

To me, it's not that much of a stretch.  At one point, Red Priests had magic.  Then magic left the world, so they developed smoke and mirror tricks to fool the people.  Now magic is returning so they are getting back to actual magic based on the old forms and rituals they had from when real magic worked.

[Vashon]

42 minutes ago, Miss CS said:

Females in combat kicking men's asses with ease is pretty silly. It's so common in fantasy, though. I just wish writers would slap themselves a little, but. I have never seen a girl kick a man's ass in real life. Not seriously, anyhow. Ever seen a mixed sex boxing match? No? There's a reason why not. It doesn't work, for obvious testosterone-related reasons of strength, speed, and aggression.

It isn't helping modern women by filling their heads with impossible fairy-tales. I've come across quite a few people now who think women can seriously defend themselves against men and leave them in a pool of blood. I suppose in an actual defense situation, the fear will kick in and they'll run and be safe. Woe to anybody who reckons Asha Greyjoy is actually a realistic female, but. Modern media might have some sorry stories to answer for, somewhere.

Feminism. That one Reach Lord has fans for a reason.

[Lord Lannister]

My largest moment is disbelief is the notion that all the great houses have been around for 8000 years, and that many years worth of wars, without being wiped out, even thought there apparently is only one main line of the family still. In the novels we see the Starks and Baratheons on the cusp of extinction from this one war for example. Oh and couple that with virtually no technological progress in that period of time, even though there is efficient means of storing and sharing information and knowledge via the ravenet.

[239JMFL34109]

3 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

The whole timing of the series is off with regards to the Others.

I find it absurd that information and "tasks" can be passed so readily around Westeros and yet despite the Night's Watch calling for assistance, and surely advising the realm the Others are back, no one gives a shit but Stannis, and that was only because his Hand was learning to read!

It's by far the biggest plot hole in the entire series.  It literally makes zero sense.

Naw that feels the most real to me. people like to pretend we are great at long term planning, being rational,  and etc... we are not. We suck at it and until we see something with our own eyes or experience it ourselves it just is not real.