williamjm Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 5 hours ago, Emre Mor-mont said: Unfortunately, it's being reported that Ms Cox has died. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36550304 It's terrible news, R.I.P. I'm seeing a few Facebook posts indicating the murderer was possibly a white supremacist The Telegraph story linked upthread stated that he subscribed to a South African white supermacist magazine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 2 minutes ago, williamjm said: The Telegraph story linked upthread stated that he subscribed to a South African white supermacist magazine. That's the same thing I've seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 Isn't Britain First one of those 'we're not racist!' racist organizations? sorry if this is covered, just coming into this fresh, literally just heard about this a few moments ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 Nope, they are pretty explicit about their racism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 Just now, Maltrouane Fellaini said: Nope, they are pretty explicit about their racism Ah, ok, cheers. I guess refreshing, in a way. This is just insane as I read more about it, the mania of the actual attack. Scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Arthur Hightower Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 Yes, both fairly openly racist and into thuggery and such as well (so a bit of a mix between EDL and BNP maybe?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjornbert Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 RIP! But moving from the vile thing this man did, isn't it extremly stupid as well? This is probably going to hurt Leave a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 11 minutes ago, Bjornbert said: RIP! But moving from the vile thing this man did, isn't it extremly stupid as well? This is probably going to hurt Leave a lot The racist side of the Leave campaign agrees with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 Britain First are the clowns whose candidate for London Mayor turned his back to Sadiq Khan as he made his acceptance speech on the stage at the count. They're also the guys who catfish people on FB into liking their page with innocuous pro-troops pictures, then claim to have the support of 'millions of ordinary Britons' on the basis of those FB Likes. They registered for the last elections with the phrase 'Remember Lee Rigby', against the stated wishes and to the distress of Lee Rigby's mother, who wanted nothing to do with them. They claim to be Christian but every major Christian denomination has denounced them. Their founders were two extremely nasty pieces of work called Jim Dowson, who has a long history of involvement with anti-abortion groups, Ulster Loyalist groups and anti-Islamic groups, all of which attracted allegations of violence and intimidation, and Paul Golding, who was thrown out of the BNP. Dowson left over their tactic of staging invasions of mosques, which was too much even for him, and Golding is now in charge. It's notable that even the English Defence League and BNP don't want anything to do with Britain First, though this is more about personal differences than ideological ones. They are, in short, vile extremists. If they have any involvement in this, they should be banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 12 minutes ago, Bjornbert said: RIP! But moving from the vile thing this man did, isn't it extremly stupid as well? This is probably going to hurt Leave a lot Don't know much about the UK delinition, but in general it's not really as simple as attack = opposite reaction. More common is that fear/anxiety and/or authoritarian ideological patterns will spike, normally meaning 'right-wing'. For an American illustration, well-publicized gun attacks always lead to an increase in gun sales, even if the attacker is himself a RW gun nut. Basically, conservatives do better off any kind of attack, even if the attacker is conservative. Now, a bit deeper into my example, while gun sales spike after attacks, the number of gun owners doesn't change nearly as much, signifying that attacks invigorate rather than create right-wing ideologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 16 minutes ago, Emre Mor-mont said: Britain First are the clowns whose candidate for London Mayor turned his back to Sadiq Khan as he made his acceptance speech on the stage at the count. They're also the guys who catfish people on FB into liking their page with innocuous pro-troops pictures, then claim to have the support of 'millions of ordinary Britons' on the basis of those FB Likes. They registered for the last elections with the phrase 'Remember Lee Rigby', against the stated wishes and to the distress of Lee Rigby's mother, who wanted nothing to do with them. They claim to be Christian but every major Christian denomination has denounced them. Their founders were two extremely nasty pieces of work called Jim Dowson, who has a long history of involvement with anti-abortion groups, Ulster Loyalist groups and anti-Islamic groups, all of which attracted allegations of violence and intimidation, and Paul Golding, who was thrown out of the BNP. Dowson left over their tactic of staging invasions of mosques, which was too much even for him, and Golding is now in charge. It's notable that even the English Defence League and BNP don't want anything to do with Britain First, though this is more about personal differences than ideological ones. They are, in short, vile extremists. If they have any involvement in this, they should be banned. Thanks, informative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereward Posted June 16, 2016 Author Share Posted June 16, 2016 RIP Jo Cox. Let's not discuss how this affects the Leave campaign. This has nothing to do with politics, it's to do with hate, which is never acceptable whatever the motivation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ab aeterno Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 36 minutes ago, Bjornbert said: RIP! But moving from the vile thing this man did, isn't it extremly stupid as well? This is probably going to hurt Leave a lot People who do these kinds of things don't tend to be the more psychologically balanced and rational thinking individuals. 18 minutes ago, James Arryn said: Don't know much about the UK delinition, but in general it's not really as simple as attack = opposite reaction. More common is that fear/anxiety and/or authoritarian ideological patterns will spike, normally meaning 'right-wing'. For an American illustration, well-publicized gun attacks always lead to an increase in gun sales, even if the attacker is himself a RW gun nut. Basically, conservatives do better off any kind of attack, even if the attacker is conservative. Now, a bit deeper into my example, while gun sales spike after attacks, the number of gun owners doesn't change nearly as much, signifying that attacks invigorate rather than create right-wing ideologies. It depends how closely people associate this guy with the Leave campaign. It has the potential to influence some of the more moderate voters, I'd say, but that's only potential and not the only possible outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjornbert Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 15 minutes ago, James Arryn said: Don't know much about the UK delinition, but in general it's not really as simple as attack = opposite reaction. More common is that fear/anxiety and/or authoritarian ideological patterns will spike, normally meaning 'right-wing'. For an American illustration, well-publicized gun attacks always lead to an increase in gun sales, even if the attacker is himself a RW gun nut. Basically, conservatives do better off any kind of attack, even if the attacker is conservative. Now, a bit deeper into my example, while gun sales spike after attacks, the number of gun owners doesn't change nearly as much, signifying that attacks invigorate rather than create right-wing ideologies. I feel there's a massive difference between those two cases. It's a natural reaction to buy guns after you hear about these shootings. People want to protect themselves and think the best way to do it is by having guns. It's not like they expect themselves to shoot other people randomly. In this case I honestly don't think that anybody who didn't agree with their case will be convinced by this act. On the contrary, many moderates on the leave side might be disgusted with being on the same side as vile men like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 As Hereward says, it might be more respectful to wait before speculating on the possible political impact of this event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 1 minute ago, Bjornbert said: I feel there's a massive difference between those two cases. It's a natural reaction to buy guns after you hear about these shootings. People want to protect themselves and think the best way to do it is by having guns. It's not like they expect themselves to shoot other people randomly. In this case I honestly don't think that anybody who didn't agree with their case will be convinced by this act. On the contrary, many moderates on the leave side might be disgusted with being on the same side as vile men like him. Oh, I doubt many will be directly inspired in his name. It's more that this will raise levels of fear/anxiety, and how that manifests itself. It may not make sense to you or I, but for many the response to generalized anxiety is to seek authoritarian answers and increase levels of norm/same seeking (ie xenophobia). I agree on an overt level the reaction you describe is more likely. Is the referendum vote public or private? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BlackBear Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 48 minutes ago, Bjornbert said: RIP! But moving from the vile thing this man did, isn't it extremly stupid as well? This is probably going to hurt Leave a lot He was clearly extremely mentally unwell, irrational things may appear totally rational under those conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 1 hour ago, Maltrouane Fellaini said: The racist side of the Leave campaign agrees with you Some people are just sickening. Very tragic news. I was just going to work when it was reported she was attacked. Saddened to come home and found she had died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ab aeterno Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 1 hour ago, Maltrouane Fellaini said: The racist side of the Leave campaign agrees with you Is the reverse parenthesis thing related to that anti-Jewish thing that was going on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BlackBear Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 7 minutes ago, ab aeterno said: Is the reverse parenthesis thing related to that anti-Jewish thing that was going on? Apparently so, it's a sort of way of them proudly showing they aren't jewish. http://nymag.com/selectall/2016/06/crafty-online-anti-semites-have-discovered-a-way-to-reverse-parentheses.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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