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UK Politics MCMXXXIX: Should I stay or should I go now?


Hereward

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5 hours ago, Emre Mor-mont said:

Unfortunately, it's being reported that Ms Cox has died. :(

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36550304

It's terrible news, R.I.P.

I'm seeing a few Facebook posts indicating the murderer was possibly a white supremacist

The Telegraph story linked upthread stated that he subscribed to a South African white supermacist magazine.

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Just now, Maltrouane Fellaini said:

Nope, they are pretty explicit about their racism

Ah, ok, cheers. I guess refreshing, in a way. This is just insane as I read more about it, the mania of the actual attack. Scary. 

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11 minutes ago, Bjornbert said:

RIP! But moving from the vile thing this man did, isn't it extremly stupid as well? This is probably going to hurt Leave a lot

The racist side of the Leave campaign agrees with you

 

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Britain First are the clowns whose candidate for London Mayor turned his back to Sadiq Khan as he made his acceptance speech on the stage at the count. They're also the guys who catfish people on FB into liking their page with innocuous pro-troops pictures, then claim to have the support of 'millions of ordinary Britons' on the basis of those FB Likes. They registered for the last elections with the phrase 'Remember Lee Rigby', against the stated wishes and to the distress of Lee Rigby's mother, who wanted nothing to do with them. They claim to be Christian but every major Christian denomination has denounced them.

Their founders were two extremely nasty pieces of work called Jim Dowson, who has a long history of involvement with anti-abortion groups, Ulster Loyalist groups and anti-Islamic groups, all of which attracted allegations of violence and intimidation, and Paul Golding, who was thrown out of the BNP. Dowson left over their tactic of staging invasions of mosques, which was too much even for him, and Golding is now in charge.

It's notable that even the English Defence League and BNP don't want anything to do with Britain First, though this is more about personal differences than ideological ones.

They are, in short, vile extremists. If they have any involvement in this, they should be banned.

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12 minutes ago, Bjornbert said:

RIP! But moving from the vile thing this man did, isn't it extremly stupid as well? This is probably going to hurt Leave a lot

Don't know much about the UK delinition, but in general it's not really as simple as attack = opposite reaction. More common is that fear/anxiety and/or authoritarian ideological patterns will spike, normally meaning 'right-wing'.

For an American illustration, well-publicized gun attacks always lead to an increase in gun sales, even if the attacker is himself a RW gun nut. Basically, conservatives do better off any kind of attack, even if the attacker is conservative. Now, a bit deeper into my example, while gun sales spike after attacks, the number of gun owners doesn't change nearly as much, signifying that attacks invigorate rather than create right-wing ideologies. 

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16 minutes ago, Emre Mor-mont said:

Britain First are the clowns whose candidate for London Mayor turned his back to Sadiq Khan as he made his acceptance speech on the stage at the count. They're also the guys who catfish people on FB into liking their page with innocuous pro-troops pictures, then claim to have the support of 'millions of ordinary Britons' on the basis of those FB Likes. They registered for the last elections with the phrase 'Remember Lee Rigby', against the stated wishes and to the distress of Lee Rigby's mother, who wanted nothing to do with them. They claim to be Christian but every major Christian denomination has denounced them.

Their founders were two extremely nasty pieces of work called Jim Dowson, who has a long history of involvement with anti-abortion groups, Ulster Loyalist groups and anti-Islamic groups, all of which attracted allegations of violence and intimidation, and Paul Golding, who was thrown out of the BNP. Dowson left over their tactic of staging invasions of mosques, which was too much even for him, and Golding is now in charge.

It's notable that even the English Defence League and BNP don't want anything to do with Britain First, though this is more about personal differences than ideological ones.

They are, in short, vile extremists. If they have any involvement in this, they should be banned.

Thanks, informative. 

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36 minutes ago, Bjornbert said:

RIP! But moving from the vile thing this man did, isn't it extremly stupid as well? This is probably going to hurt Leave a lot

People who do these kinds of things don't tend to be the more psychologically balanced and rational thinking individuals. 

18 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

Don't know much about the UK delinition, but in general it's not really as simple as attack = opposite reaction. More common is that fear/anxiety and/or authoritarian ideological patterns will spike, normally meaning 'right-wing'.

For an American illustration, well-publicized gun attacks always lead to an increase in gun sales, even if the attacker is himself a RW gun nut. Basically, conservatives do better off any kind of attack, even if the attacker is conservative. Now, a bit deeper into my example, while gun sales spike after attacks, the number of gun owners doesn't change nearly as much, signifying that attacks invigorate rather than create right-wing ideologies. 

It depends how closely people associate this guy with the Leave campaign. It has the potential to influence some of the more moderate voters, I'd say, but that's only potential and not the only possible outcome. 

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15 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

Don't know much about the UK delinition, but in general it's not really as simple as attack = opposite reaction. More common is that fear/anxiety and/or authoritarian ideological patterns will spike, normally meaning 'right-wing'.

For an American illustration, well-publicized gun attacks always lead to an increase in gun sales, even if the attacker is himself a RW gun nut. Basically, conservatives do better off any kind of attack, even if the attacker is conservative. Now, a bit deeper into my example, while gun sales spike after attacks, the number of gun owners doesn't change nearly as much, signifying that attacks invigorate rather than create right-wing ideologies. 

I feel there's a massive difference between those two cases. It's a natural reaction to buy guns after you hear about these shootings. People want to protect themselves and think the best way to do it  is by having guns. It's not like they expect themselves to shoot other people randomly.

In this case I honestly don't think that anybody who didn't agree with their case will be convinced by this act. On the contrary, many moderates on the leave side might be disgusted with being on the same side as vile men like him.

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1 minute ago, Bjornbert said:

I feel there's a massive difference between those two cases. It's a natural reaction to buy guns after you hear about these shootings. People want to protect themselves and think the best way to do it  is by having guns. It's not like they expect themselves to shoot other people randomly.

In this case I honestly don't think that anybody who didn't agree with their case will be convinced by this act. On the contrary, many moderates on the leave side might be disgusted with being on the same side as vile men like him.

Oh, I doubt many will be directly inspired in his name. 

It's more that this will raise levels of fear/anxiety, and how that manifests itself. It may not make sense to you or I, but for many the response to generalized anxiety is to seek authoritarian answers and increase levels of norm/same seeking (ie xenophobia). I agree on an overt level the reaction you describe is more likely. Is the referendum vote public or private?

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48 minutes ago, Bjornbert said:

RIP! But moving from the vile thing this man did, isn't it extremly stupid as well? This is probably going to hurt Leave a lot

He was clearly extremely mentally unwell, irrational things may appear totally rational under those conditions.

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1 hour ago, Maltrouane Fellaini said:

The racist side of the Leave campaign agrees with you

 

Some people are just sickening. 

Very tragic news. I was just going to work when it was reported she was attacked. Saddened to come home and found she had died.

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