Ser Lepus Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 Just now, Vastet said: "I dunno. Liquid fuel (and any fat-based fuel will melt and become liquid when heated) tend to burn fast, and those brazier offer a wide area of contact between the oil/fat and the air... Most oil lamps/heaters I know about have a narrow neck that allow only a small oil surface to be in contact with air. Or they use wicks." I'm by no means an expert on medieval torches. I can say that if the brazier design is flawed, then Game Of Thrones is only the most recent example of this poor design being used in film. Giant wide braziers can be found in every show and movie which depicts that stage of technology that I've ever seen. Yes, but that kind of brazier would use wood or coal as fuel, not oil. I mean, try to fill a pot with oil and lit it, and see what happens (don't do it! not my fault if your house burns!) And even if you use only a small amount of oil, it will burn very fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vastet Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 I'm not qualified to discuss this much further. I only know the physics of fire, not the ancient technology designed to abuse those physics. Though I can say they could not be using wood or coal. There's no trees to burn, and we've seen no indication the Dothraki mine. Plus the desert isn't a good place for finding coal. Dung is the fuel they should use most often, as it is the most readily available accelerant. Obviously shit wouldn't have the effect we saw though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg B Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 Well, they're not using wood or coal, because you can clearly see that they're just pots of oil with the surface burning. When they're tipped over, the whole volume of oil in the pot is exposed to air and ignites. Good looks at 2:30 and 3:05. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7d7VSzMix7Q Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitteh Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 3 hours ago, Ser Lepus said: Yes, but that kind of brazier would use wood or coal as fuel, not oil. I mean, try to fill a pot with oil and lit it, and see what happens (don't do it! not my fault if your house burns!) And even if you use only a small amount of oil, it will burn very fast. No. Wood creates smoke/ash, which is why you need chimneys to draw the smoke away so you don't die. Braziers, torches, lanterns, use oil on top of the other fuel, like coal, pitch, and other flammable materials (like the stuff you'd wrap a torch with before you soaked it in oil. Oil does not burn as fast as dry timber for instance. Oil makes your fuel (like the wick of a lantern), burn slower and produce less smoke, which is why they're used differently than fireplaces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hol Horse Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 Her Snowflake level rose tenfold this episode. Fire and Blood? More like Cringe and Cheesiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 9 hours ago, Ser Lepus said: Yes, but that kind of brazier would use wood or coal as fuel, not oil. I mean, try to fill a pot with oil and lit it, and see what happens (don't do it! not my fault if your house burns!) And even if you use only a small amount of oil, it will burn very fast. My first thought was that Jorah and Daario soaked the whole room in some sort of combustible oil. To me that's the only thing that can really explain the fire going up those steps like it did. There was a good amount of premeditation here given they locked the doors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Lepus Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 12 hours ago, ShadowKitteh said: No. Wood creates smoke/ash, which is why you need chimneys to draw the smoke away so you don't die. And that's the reason fireplaces were created. Braziers like those were a more primitive option, and unlike chimneys, require the use of smokeless vegetable coal (like olive tree coal, "picón" in Spanish) as fuel. My late grandma still used a picón brazier when she was young. 12 hours ago, ShadowKitteh said: Braziers, torches, lanterns, use oil on top of the other fuel, like coal, pitch, and other flammable materials (like the stuff you'd wrap a torch with before you soaked it in oil. Oil is used as an accelerant, to make the wood catch fire more easily and faster, not the opposite. And if you filled a brazier with oil like in the series and lit it, the flames would reach the roof. 12 hours ago, ShadowKitteh said: Oil does not burn as fast as dry timber for instance. Oil makes your fuel (like the wick of a lantern), burn slower and produce less smoke, which is why they're used differently than fireplaces. Oil burns way faster than dry timber. Large amonts of oil literally explode when you lit it. There is a reason the refined petrol you put in you car is called "oil" too, because it burns very similarly. The wick of a lamp isn't fuel, the oil is the fuel; the wick's purpose is to absorb the oil and function as a sort of deposit for it so you burn only the very small amount of oil in it, allowing the oil to burn slowly instead of exploding like a fireball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spivo Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 In a book, the scene would have been described something along the lines of: "the fires moved as if she controlled them..." And then everyone would have been fine with that. The scene makes us, the viewers, and everyone in the tent think she actually controls the fires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adiman83 Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 10 minutes ago, spivo said: In a book, the scene would have been described something along the lines of: "the fires moved as if she controlled them..." And then everyone would have been fine with that. The scene makes us, the viewers, and everyone in the tent think she actually controls the fires. That might have been deliberate. I'm quite sure that's what the directors were going for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitteh Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 2 hours ago, Ser Lepus said: And that's the reason fireplaces were created. Braziers like those were a more primitive option, and unlike chimneys, require the use of smokeless vegetable coal (like olive tree coal, "picón" in Spanish) as fuel. My late grandma still used a picón brazier when she was young. Oil is used as an accelerant, to make the wood catch fire more easily and faster, not the opposite. And if you filled a brazier with oil like in the series and lit it, the flames would reach the roof. Oil burns way faster than dry timber. Large amonts of oil literally explode when you lit it. There is a reason the refined petrol you put in you car is called "oil" too, because it burns very similarly. The wick of a lamp isn't fuel, the oil is the fuel; the wick's purpose is to absorb the oil and function as a sort of deposit for it so you burn only the very small amount of oil in it, allowing the oil to burn slowly instead of exploding like a fireball. I never claimed oil made starting a fire slower. I said it makes whatever you're using for a wick last longer. A candle is made of a wick and paraffin. If you light just the wick without the paraffin, it will burn very fast, and you'll be out of wick. If you add the paraffin, it lasts a long time. Tiki torch - haven't you ever tried to light a tiki torch that hasn't any oil in it? Same principal with a lantern and a brazier. Braziers use pitch, oil, and coal, not wood, unless it's outside, due to the ash and smoke from the burning wood. Interior braziers would use just coal if it was for heat, but add oil/animal fat, for light, since it would make everything burn longer - like a candle. Lanterns and candles don't smoke and produce ash like a wood fire does. Same principal with a brazier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TickTak7 Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 I don't really understand why people are hyper-analyzing this scene. She sets the Temple of the Dosh Khaleen on fire. She traps the Khals inside. She kills them. She walks out, unburnt, winning the favor of the Dothraki Khalasers. It's really not that hard. Fire spreading and door breaking etc. If you can't suspend your sense of belief about firing spreading in a show that has dragons, ice zombies, vagina monsters, and several hundred year old women, then I think it's time you held up your hand and admitted to yourself that you are probably over-thinking things WAY too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Lepus Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 32 minutes ago, TickTak7 said: I don't really understand why people are hyper-analyzing this scene. She sets the Temple of the Dosh Khaleen on fire. She traps the Khals inside. She kills them. She walks out, unburnt, winning the favor of the Dothraki Khalasers. It's really not that hard. Fire spreading and door breaking etc. If you can't suspend your sense of belief about firing spreading in a show that has dragons, ice zombies, vagina monsters, and several hundred year old women, then I think it's time you held up your hand and admitted to yourself that you are probably over-thinking things WAY too much. Ice zombies, shadowbabies and dragons are magical; we can accept the as part of a world with different rules than our own. Oil and fire? We know how those work, so we can spot and recognize inconsistencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TickTak7 Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 33 minutes ago, Ser Lepus said: Ice zombies, shadowbabies and dragons are magical; we can accept the as part of a world with different rules than our own. Oil and fire? We know how those work, so we can spot and recognize inconsistencies. Do we know how these work though? We've seen widfire and all sorts of different things on the show - maybe oil and fire perform to very different sets of norms in this world. It is fantasy fiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Spider Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-quotSternoquot-Flaming-Jelly-from-Antacid/ The two Ex-Kaleeshee are the ones that most likely locked them in. Or, part of the ritual was for them to be locked inside (like they do when they choose a pope). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clash Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 16 minutes ago, Ice Spider said: http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-quotSternoquot-Flaming-Jelly-from-Antacid/ The two Ex-Kaleeshee are the ones that most likely locked them in. Or, part of the ritual was for them to be locked inside (like they do when they choose a pope). Jorah and Daario killed the guards and locked them in. That was what Dany told them to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Spider Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 Then why were they so far away when it first showed the place burning? I don't think so, the ex-kaleeshee were inside at first and the last to leave the building. do the math. They will also be the ones to help Dany lead the Dothraki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vastet Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 I agree with Ice Spider. It couldn't have been Daario and Jorah. They were too far away, and couldn't possibly have snuck up on the building anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adiman83 Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 22 hours ago, Vastet said: I'm not qualified to discuss this much further. I only know the physics of fire, not the ancient technology designed to abuse those physics. Though I can say they could not be using wood or coal. There's no trees to burn, and we've seen no indication the Dothraki mine. Plus the desert isn't a good place for finding coal. Dung is the fuel they should use most often, as it is the most readily available accelerant. Obviously shit wouldn't have the effect we saw though. Or animal fat. Grease has been used as a fuel for lighting sources for many centuries in the real world. Also, fat is extremely flammable. 1 hour ago, Ice Spider said: Then why were they so far away when it first showed the place burning? I don't think so, the ex-kaleeshee were inside at first and the last to leave the building. do the math. They will also be the ones to help Dany lead the Dothraki Maybe there was more than one Dosh Khaleen in on the plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vastet Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 True. I'm inclined to think dung mixed with fat and soaked in diluted oil is the most likely fuel for the braziers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
direwoofwoof Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Loved this scene and find it interesting that both fires scenes were with the Dothraki. In the books didn't her hair burn off? In season one and this episode is expected her to be bald after the fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.